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AQ Balance Patch

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Howdy Heroes! Hope you've all been well since the last time we talked. I have some updates on the balance changes that I discussed with you in some length a few weeks ago. Thanks to feedback from the community we reevaluated the changes we had planned for 2H tanks and beefed them up a bit more. We also had time to look at something else the community had asked for in the time between then and now, so we're happy to say we have some big buffs today for Holy Casters. We have a few other fun changes that we were able to work on as well, so lets dive right in.

 

Two-Handed Tanks

We realized that while we had created some unique synergies for this tank variant thanks to feedback from you all we also realized we did not create enough value. Our goal here was to see how we could load more value into talents which players would already consider taking so as not to spread their talent essence too thin. This is where we ended up.

Tactical Mastery has been reworked and now in addition to increasing the threat generated by your Mortal Strike and Bloodthirst abilities it also increases your armor contribution from items by 17/34/50%, Stamina by 3/6/9%, and reduces all damage taken by 2/4/6% while in Defensive Stance and a Two-Handed Weapon is equipped.

We realized that tanks using this talent just weren't getting enough defensive stats to justify losing a shield, an RE and the ability to block, so we added some more defensive stats to this talent.

Iron Will has been reworked and now provides an additional 8/16/25% of your Strength as parry rating and gives you a 33/66/100% chance to gain 50% damage reduction for 10 seconds after dealing damage with Mocking Blow. Also, parrying an attack causes you to generate 10 rage.

This talent was seriously lacking previously, so we knew this was a place where we wanted to address some of the issues of the 2H tank. One was missing out on strong defensive cooldowns like Shield Wall, Shield Block and Holy Shield, so we ended up giving them a powerful on demand cooldown through Mocking Blow while simultaneously ensuring that in all PvE situations you will be able to rely on Mocking Blow hitting your target. The other issue we saw was the potential to be rage starved by getting several parry/dodge strings, so this change should heavily alleviate that issue.

Setup now also reduces the chance to dodge granted by Ghostly Strike by 5/10/15% and increases its parry chance granted by 5/10/15% and increases the duration of your Ghostly Strike effect by 2/4/6 seconds.

We also realized that trying to split the cooldown reduction effect here to Sleight of Hand left you a bit more TE starved than you should be, so we added it here.

Deflection (Combat) now also increases the threat of your Ghostly Strike and Riposte by 20/40/60% and gives you a 33/66/100% chance to reduce the cooldown of your Ghostly Strike by 3 seconds after using Riposte.

This talent was already commonly selected by tanks, so we wanted to look here to add additional synergies with Ghostly Strike + Setup combo without a lot of base value for every style of tank.

Improved Revenge now also causes your next Devastate following Revenge to hit an additional 1/2 targets.

We realized, also, that the Two-Handed tank would lacking in both cleave and AoE threat since they don't have access to the heavy amount of passive threat provided by Holy Shield and Damage Shield as well as the very consistent cleave of Hammer of the Righteous. This also gives all tanks taking this talent some additional utility.

Thunder Clap now deals double damage when a Two-Handed weapon is equipped.

This should allow a very consistent way for Two-Handed tanks to hold threat on multiple targets.

We hope you guys will have a fun experience with this new style of tanking! Please continue to provide feedback on the matter if you have any. We will listen!

 

Holy Caster DPS

After hearing the community ask for this we really wanted to be able to deliver before the patch was ready. It took a lot of extra work to squeeze it in, but we believe we have Holy Casters at a competitive level finally. We started with some simple changes like straight damage buffs, but we also wanted to reinforce some of the unique options Holy Casters have available to them. This is where we ended up.

Smite- Damage increased at all ranks by 20%.

Holy Fire- Damage increased by 20%. Deals 16% less damage to players.

Penance- Damage increased by 20%. Deals 16% less damage to players.

Exorcism- Deals 16% less damage to players.

Holy Nova- Damage and healing increased by 20%.

Searing Light- Now also increases the damage of Exorcism.

As stated above, we realized we need some serious number tweaks to make sure this build would be able to perform in any way. We decided to give all spells in the Holy repertoire a handsome buff while keeping their potentially high damage in PvP in check.

Surge of Light- Now also increases the damage of your next Smite by 60%. This damage is reduced to 20% versus players.

We also realized that Surge of Light provided a fun and unique, if weak, way for you to play the build. We finally have the tools available to use to tune damage dealt to players, so we decided to finally make use of this here. This talent should finally become a viable way to Smite down your foes!

Righteous Flames- 65/70/70/75/75% Holy Fire DoT damage and .2/.2/.4/.4/.6 increased duration on the DoT effect.

Another thing we realized is that holy casters have a lack of stackable REs available to them, or a lack of viable ones at least. We decided to look at one of the existing ones and beef it up to make it viable in both PvP and PvE scenarios.

Holy Ascension- After casting Holy Fire your next spell is empowered:
Smite: Deals 50% additional damage.
Exorcism: Increases all Holy damage you deal to the target by 5% for 10 seconds.
Penance: Fires an additional %.
Holy Shock: Guaranteed to critically strike.

It's been awhile since we've released a new random enchant, so we wanted to make sure we created something that was both flexible and fun. We hope you all enjoy playing with this one. We believe it should prove to be viable in both PvE and PvP scenarios, but please continue to give us your feedback!

 

AQ 20 Set Bonuses

I'm not going to talk into detail on every change we made here, but mostly just talk about why we made changes here. Set bonuses are something we've wanted to touch for a long time on Ascension, but we feared that players would already be attached to the existing one in the game and be hooked on the theory crafting they've done with each individual set. We decided, however, that the AQ20 sets would be a good opportunity to experiment and see not only what we could come up with, but also the reaction of the community. 

This change isn't something we did lightly, but we realized that many of these sets would be completely looked over as their stats and set bonuses were both lacking compared to the previous MC and BWL raid gear. So we took the initiative to try and create something unique with each set which should hopefully make some of the sets attractive in a variety of situations. Again, we'd love to hear what you, the community, has to say about the changes and if you are on board we'd love to look into making changes to some of the AQ40 sets as well! Unless you'd like to keep your 30% Blizzard interrupt prevention and +40% hit procs that is...

 

While we do have many more fixes and changes included in this update this is all I have for you today. Thanks again for hanging around with us and, as always, for your continued support and feedback. Have fun in AQ heroes!

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Praise :D glad you listened to players finally. This is one of the best updates I've seen that is community driven. One step in the right direction =D

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I just have to say that the 2 new REs are really fantastic from a design standpoint.  Having active/reactionary effects instead of passive bonuses is definitely what I think most people want to see in the future.  The fact that they have 3 effects depending on the choice of ability used afterwards is also an interesting way to take it.

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Well done. I agree with what Skray said; the new REs really are fantastic in terms of design. It's nice to finally be able to track buffs, and then make a choice to use them in a way which can adapt to specific situations. I think this is an awesome concept. (WTB Blademaster RE - whisper Stormi, Horde, Andorhal<3)

 

As a main-spec tank I'll focus mostly on the new concept of two-handed tank. It appears the the spec will not only be viable, but fun and engaging to play as well. It's great to see the Devs take feedback in a positive manner. As Hanlin put it better than I could: Praise. I believe this is an a great step towards the server improvement we all wish to see. As a side note: I'm sure some tuning will have to be done somewhere, but as it is now it has a strong base and room for differentiation among player style. Well done.

 

All I can really do is repeat myself on this one: job well done. Very well done. 

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  • 2h tanks will still face the exact same problems as before this update -- still at most viable for tanking easy 5-mans, and probably completely overpowered within their niche in PvP.
  • Holy caster burst will be way too high. Holy Ascension design is cool, but the smite and holy shock buffs are too strong. People will be globaled and it won't be fun.
  • I hope no one realizes how OP combining these above changes could be for a 2h PvP hybrid. 

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A lot of good changes, I enjoy these new REs and set bonuses AND I HOPE we will see more of this.

 

Excited to see holy casters finally getting pve love.

A few problems/questions:

 

* 2H tanks seem to be so forced. I fear they will break pvp against other melees

* Why were feral spirits nerfed overall. I would actually have expected to see them buffed in pve, and nerfed only in pvp.

* Same deal for static shock. Flat nerf to an already useless pve talent. Why ?

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So we took the initiative to try and create something unique with each set which should hopefully make some of the sets attractive in a variety of situations.

So you gave rogue gear 12% energy regen? that's not really unique.

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Neat.


So... 2h tanks.

As is, they're just going to dominate PvP against other melee's, fine by me.
25% str to parry will give roughly 200 parry rating, ranging from anywhere between 6-10% parry depending on defense
(Parry starts falling off faster than any other stat)

 

But in PvE, you gave them no love.
This is an AQ Balance patch, not a WSG balance patch no?

25% str to parry is going to be roughly 80 parry rating, 4-5%
Go put some raid gear and allocate to stamina, grab the talent, and look at how much parry you dont have.

So with this in mind, your either forcing us to use riposte to keep parry up(Which PvP builds will have anyways)
Or forcing us out of parry, the thing which you centered this build around...

My simple solution:
"Iron Will"

Convert 25% str/stam(highest chosen) to parry.

If you dont want to implement this can you atleast explain why?

I dont understand the disregard for the PvE side of the build when you made the PvP blatantly strong as fuck.

Also, Mocking Blow is extremely situational, it seems like a wasted 2AE to me, as you will always have aggro,
and its melee range so you cant even pull with it to get the DR for the beginning of the fight

 

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47 minutes ago, moreumph said:


Also, Mocking Blow is extremely situational, it seems like a wasted 2AE to me, as you will always have aggro,
and its melee range so you cant even pull with it to get the DR for the beginning of the fight

 

  • Mocking Blow now has a 2 min cooldown, but can no longer be blocked, dodged, parried, or miss and now deals damage to taunt immune targets

So it will now work even if you have the aggro of the boss already :)

Edited by Kellogs

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Changes are good, but I feel as a 2H tank that I'm even more TE starved than before. I feel forced to grab every single parry talent in the game which restricts build variety.

Also Mocking Blow having a 2 minute CD is too long. Especially when considering shield tanks can get Shield Block on a 30 second cd, ON TOP of Holy Shield, and Shield Wall.

Edited by X0A

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1 hour ago, X0A said:

Also Mocking Blow having a 2 minute CD is too long. Especially when considering shield tanks can get Shield Block on a 30 second cd, ON TOP of Holy Shield, and Shield Wall.

Because its active effect becomes like Divine protection or shield wall, both of which have 3 min cd. In which world of yours does that compare to Holy shield and Shield Block????????

Edited by Gubbyascension

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2 hours ago, Gubbyascension said:

Because its active effect becomes like Divine protection or shield wall, both of which have 3 min cd. In which world of yours does that compare to Holy shield and Shield Block????????

Shield Wall + Shield Block + Holy Shield
-
Mocking Blow

I think 2min is a bit too harsh, even lowering it 20-30sec would seem better, alot can happen in 2mins

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12 minutes ago, moreumph said:

Shield Wall + Shield Block + Holy Shield
-
Mocking Blow

I think 2min is a bit too harsh, even lowering it 20-30sec would seem better, alot can happen in 2mins

but 2h tank doesn't only have mocking blow. If you count holy shield then you have to count ghostly strike too. And that has 100% uptime with its talents and the right ability usage. The legendary RE if you have it is quite huge too. Parry has an advantage over block that most people also ignore. It reduces the damage of a enemys attack by 100% unlike blocking.

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Decent changes, I like them @itswicky

However I do find it a little bit strange that an RE called "BLADEMASTER" benefits something that requires a shield and also increase armor (which btw is such low amount that it doesn't even matter).

I would suggest that you change the RE to something like:

File:Ability warrior challange.png
Blademaster: When you parry you gain 6% melee haste for 20 seconds, stacking 5 times. At 5 stacks you empower the next ability you use, consuming the stacks and granting it an additional effect for 10 seconds: Devastate: Deals 50% additional damage and reduces the targets armor by an additional 10% for 6 seconds. Riposte: Increases your chance to parry by 12% for 12 seconds. Counterattack: Instantly counterattack any enemy that strikes you in melee for 5 sec. Melee attacks made from behind cannot be counterattacked.

Comment: Parrying is situational regardless of how much parry rating you got, so instead of an armor buff I think a buff for melee haste would be abit more rewarding. About the counterattack part, I just think it would suit the RE better. 


I also have a few ideas for talent changes, to make a smoother rotation for the parry build and holy build:

Ability warrior sunder.png
Puncture: Reduces the rage cost of your Sunder Armor and Devastate abilities by 1/2/3. In addition, you have a 33/66/100% chance to allow the use of your Revenge ability after using Devastate for 9 sec. This effect can only occur once every 6 sec.

Comment: Investing in ablities that relys on parrying, dodging, blocking or resisting makes a pretty "cluncky" rotation and is simply too situational and slow - especially in a fast meta which we currently have.

 

Ability paladin infusionoflight.png
Infusion of Light: Your Holy Shock critical hits reduce the cast time of your next Flash of Light and Exorcism by 0.75/1.5 sec or increase the the critical chance of your next Holy Light by 10%. In addition, causes your Flash of Light to heal targets with Sacred Shield for an additional 50/100% for 12 sec.

Comment: I personally feel like Exorcism still isn't attractive enough for holy casters (or in general). Both cooldown and cast time is too long compared to the damage it does. I think a change like this could make it somewhat more viable.
 

Spell shadow burningspirit.png
Improved Life Tap: Increases the amount of Mana awareded by your Life Tap spell by 10/20% and reduces its cooldown by 1/2 sec."

Comment: I think the Life Tap change was fine, but I also think there should be an option to at least lower the cooldown a little bit.

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Hey guys! I wanted to follow up here by first saying thank you so much for all the feedback! I love all the love from the community ❤️, but I also respect all the concerns and constructive feedback you've been able to give us. 

To talk first about the Two-Handed tanks it seems we have a lot of both positive and mixed feedback on their performance in PvE and concerns for PvP. I have lots of reports saying they will be too strong in PvE, but also too weak compared to other tanks. I think it may be a little early to tell, but I hope by the end of the week we'll have some more conclusive feedback as to whether they are still too weak defensively, too TE starved, or too strong offensively. 

Another thing we'll be keeping a close eye on is the Thunder Clap changes. It's possible we went a little too far with these changes. We don't necessarily mind dps adding this ability into their AoE rotation, but if it becomes a staple in their single target rotation, or if the Two-Handed tanks are simply getting too much value from it, then we will make changes as necessary.

Lastly I want to talk briefly about PvP. I know a lot of people talk about the worries of Two-Handed tanks being too strong in PvP, and that's mostly as a counter to melee in PvP. We are fine with certain builds being strong counter to other builds, but only in the scenario that they don't inherently have any counter themselves. Also, I have heard some concerns about Holy's potential power and burst in PvP and it's something else we'll be keeping a close eye on. I want to remind people now that we will be quick to make adjustments as necessary and have no issues owning up to what we are responsible for. I also want to remind players that we have better, more efficient ways, to address issues in PvP than we have had in the past. Most adjustments can now be made on a case by case basis and require only a realm restart, which is huge!

In short, in regards to PvP we will simply be needing the valuable feedback from our community to best determine if and what changes should be made. Long past are the days in which a build can dominate the scene for months on end before adjustments are made. With your help and continued support we believe we can make Ascension a place worth calling home ❤️.

Now to address any specific concerns that weren't already done so above:

10 hours ago, phyrex said:

Know it's not the place, but I don't see the point in making a bugtracker for it personally. I tested these 2 on PTR in-so-far as the ptr was up for longer than 5 minutes at a time. 
 

* Tactical Mastery - the client doesn't remember you have this specced when you unequip/swap an item. Need to re-learn it constantly. 
* Iron Will - Mocking Blow damage reduction is either hidden or doesn't work(I assumed you would get a buff for 10sec).

I have tested these both on our live realms just now and they seem to be working fine. Tactical Mastery is updating as I change stance and change my equipment. Iron Will will only proc its effect when it deals damage, which should be all targets except for players.

On 9/27/2018 at 4:09 PM, SirGank said:

So we took the initiative to try and create something unique with each set which should hopefully make some of the sets attractive in a variety of situations.

So you gave rogue gear 12% energy regen? that's not really unique.

We did the best we could, with the time we had, with the set bonuses and we apologize if we fell short for any of the sets the community may have been looking forward to. If the community is alright with us working on more set bonuses moving forward, like the AQ 40 sets, we promise we will deliver. We actually already have some really interesting things in mind for the Rogue set :) .

On 9/27/2018 at 6:22 PM, X0A said:

Changes are good, but I feel as a 2H tank that I'm even more TE starved than before. I feel forced to grab every single parry talent in the game which restricts build variety.

Also Mocking Blow having a 2 minute CD is too long. Especially when considering shield tanks can get Shield Block on a 30 second cd, ON TOP of Holy Shield, and Shield Wall.

We hope the passive mitigation we gave Two-Handed tanks through Tactical Mastery and the powerful on use cooldown we gave them through Iron Will with Mocking Blow should be enough to offset the loss of the big cooldown of Shield Wall and the smaller ones of both Holy Shield and Shield Block. If they remain too squishy to compete with other tanks, then we will reevaluate to see where we fell short and how we can address this issue.

On 9/27/2018 at 4:39 PM, moreumph said:

Neat.


So... 2h tanks.

As is, they're just going to dominate PvP against other melee's, fine by me.
25% str to parry will give roughly 200 parry rating, ranging from anywhere between 6-10% parry depending on defense
(Parry starts falling off faster than any other stat)

 

But in PvE, you gave them no love.
This is an AQ Balance patch, not a WSG balance patch no?

25% str to parry is going to be roughly 80 parry rating, 4-5%
Go put some raid gear and allocate to stamina, grab the talent, and look at how much parry you dont have.

So with this in mind, your either forcing us to use riposte to keep parry up(Which PvP builds will have anyways)
Or forcing us out of parry, the thing which you centered this build around...

We did some testing of our own, and even had the help of some theory crafting by players, and with the Ghostly Strike synergies it's possible to have parry % upwards of 40 and higher without sacrificing too much in the means of survivability since they will need some place to allocate all the points shield tanks allocate for block rating and the likes. If it turns out we missed the mark with this synergy then we will definitely make adjustments as necessary.

@AG007 thanks so much for taking the time to send us those suggestions! We really appreciate it. ❤️

 

I apologize if I missed or did not address anyone here's specific concerns, but I hope that I have. If there's anything you still would like to share, or need some clarification on, please just reply here and I'll do my best to keep up with everyone. Thanks again you guys, cheers!

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10 minutes ago, itswicky said:

Hey guys! I wanted to follow up here by first saying thank you so much for all the feedback! I love all the love from the community ❤️, but I also respect all the concerns and constructive feedback you've been able to give us. 

To talk first about the Two-Handed tanks it seems we have a lot of both positive and mixed feedback on their performance in PvE and concerns for PvP. I have lots of reports saying they will be too strong in PvE, but also too weak compared to other tanks. I think it may be a little early to tell, but I hope by the end of the week we'll have some more conclusive feedback as to whether they are still too weak defensively, too TE starved, or too strong offensively. 

Another thing we'll be keeping a close eye on is the Thunder Clap changes. It's possible we went a little too far with these changes. We don't necessarily mind dps adding this ability into their AoE rotation, but if it becomes a staple in their single target rotation, or if the Two-Handed tanks are simply getting too much value from it, then we will make changes as necessary.

Lastly I want to talk briefly about PvP. I know a lot of people talk about the worries of Two-Handed tanks being too strong in PvP, and that's mostly as a counter to melee in PvP. We are fine with certain builds being strong counter to other builds, but only in the scenario that they don't inherently have any counter themselves. Also, I have heard some concerns about Holy's potential power and burst in PvP and it's something else we'll be keeping a close eye on. I want to remind people now that we will be quick to make adjustments as necessary and have no issues owning up to what we are responsible for. I also want to remind players that we have better, more efficient ways, to address issues in PvP than we have had in the past. Most adjustments can now be made on a case by case basis and require only a realm restart, which is huge!

In short, in regards to PvP we will simply be needing the valuable feedback from our community to best determine if and what changes should be made. Long past are the days in which a build can dominate the scene for months on end before adjustments are made. With your help and continued support we believe we can make Ascension a place worth calling home ❤️.

Now to address any specific concerns that weren't already done so above:

I have tested these both on our live realms just now and they seem to be working fine. Tactical Mastery is updating as I change stance and change my equipment. Iron Will will only proc its effect when it deals damage, which should be all targets except for players.

We did the best we could, with the time we had, with the set bonuses and we apologize if we fell short for any of the sets the community may have been looking forward to. If the community is alright with us working on more set bonuses moving forward, like the AQ 40 sets, we promise we will deliver. We actually already have some really interesting things in mind for the Rogue set :) .

We hope the passive mitigation we gave Two-Handed tanks through Tactical Mastery and the powerful on use cooldown we gave them through Iron Will with Mocking Blow should be enough to offset the loss of the big cooldown of Shield Wall and the smaller ones of both Holy Shield and Shield Block. If they remain too squishy to compete with other tanks, then we will reevaluate to see where we fell short and how we can address this issue.

We did some testing of our own, and even had the help of some theory crafting by players, and with the Ghostly Strike synergies it's possible to have parry % upwards of 40 and higher without sacrificing too much in the means of survivability since they will need some place to allocate all the points shield tanks allocate for block rating and the likes. If it turns out we missed the mark with this synergy then we will definitely make adjustments as necessary.

@AG007 thanks so much for taking the time to send us those suggestions! We really appreciate it. ❤️

 

I apologize if I missed or did not address anyone here's specific concerns, but I hope that I have. If there's anything you still would like to share, or need some clarification on, please just reply here and I'll do my best to keep up with everyone. Thanks again you guys, cheers!

Sorry for bothering you again but I'm really curious why a very underwhelming talent (Static Shock) was nerfed to only 3 ranks and wasn't buffed in power to compensate. I was actually hoping for a long time to see static shock be a 3 pts talents and have it's old 5/5 values (similar to the changes to maelstrom weapon and other talents).

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Just now, sabrio said:

Sorry for bothering you again but I'm really curious why a very underwhelming talent (Static Shock) was nerfed to only 3 ranks and wasn't buffed in power to compensate. I was actually hoping for a long time to see static shock be a 3 pts talents and have it's old 5/5 values (similar to the changes to maelstrom weapon and other talents).

No need to be sorry, and I apologize for not addressing this with my initial response. The reason we actually made changes to this was because it was starting to be used, along with the REs, in PvP to great effect by providing, mostly, passive damage to targets. As we've hopefully made clear to the community we're not big fans of passive power and prefer to promote active game play. That said, we know this talent can be add a lot of flavor to build in PvE, so moving forward we will try our best to find a solution that makes this remain flavorful, but become more attractive, in PvE while simultaneously addressing the issues we found it could have in PvP.

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25 minutes ago, itswicky said:

No need to be sorry, and I apologize for not addressing this with my initial response. The reason we actually made changes to this was because it was starting to be used, along with the REs, in PvP to great effect by providing, mostly, passive damage to targets. As we've hopefully made clear to the community we're not big fans of passive power and prefer to promote active game play. That said, we know this talent can be add a lot of flavor to build in PvE, so moving forward we will try our best to find a solution that makes this remain flavorful, but become more attractive, in PvE while simultaneously addressing the issues we found it could have in PvP.

I understand that. That's why I think increasing the proc chance would help it in PvE. You also have the possibility of making it deal less damage to players.

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2 hours ago, itswicky said:

Another thing we'll be keeping a close eye on is the Thunder Clap changes. It's possible we went a little too far with these changes. We don't necessarily mind dps adding this ability into their AoE rotation, but if it becomes a staple in their single target rotation, or if the Two-Handed tanks are simply getting too much value from it, then we will make changes as necessary

Mostly just wanted to chime in on this - Clap buff seems completely fine in pretty much any scenario right now, it should never really become a staple in any DPS ST rotation unless you're just fully investing into it at that point... but even if someone did decide to do that it ultimately reduces all other fronts of your dmg since you're solely focusing on pushing Claps dmg and nothing else really. It'll never realistically become a ST option, no matter what really. It simply just doesnt do enough for a DPS, not to mention its 6 second cooldown. I *personally* think its fine as is, its just a good option now, not really overtuned at all.

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2 hours ago, itswicky said:

I have heard some concerns about Holy's potential power and burst in PvP and it's something else we'll be keeping a close eye on. I want to remind people now that we will be quick to make adjustments as necessary and have no issues owning up to what we are responsible for.

Yes, holy casters are really starting to shine right now, and the amount of burst they can do might honestly be a tad too much (at least in the PvP scene). We need to remember that the thing about holy magic is that it cannot be resisted, so holy will always do full damage to the target and it allows the holy caster to invest in other stats than spell penetration.

I kinda feel like the Surge of Light buff was unnecessary, especially considering that you do a flat buff to Smite itself. Surge of Light was already an attractive talent before, but I suppose the change was made to make holy casters more viable, and if thats the case I think there are better ways to do that.

Here's an other suggestion.
Let's say that you undo the Surge of Light damage buff and instead make it like this:
File:Spell holy surgeoflight.png
Surge of Light: Your spell criticals and Holy Fire damage-over-time effect have a 25/50% chance to cause your next Smite or Flash Heal spell to become instant cast, cost no mana but be incapable of a critcal hit. This effect lasts 10 sec.

By doing this you give Holy Casters a better flow in their rotation. Also the Righteous Flames (holy fire RE) becomes a lot more viable because the increased duration of the dot would essentially mean more Surge of Light procs. And in context with this, you could make Holy Fire dot scale with haste and/or make it able it critically hit.
Another idea could be adding 50% healing reduction effect to Holy Fire dot.

I honestly think that such change would easily allow you to cut a good chunck of some of the burst power without hurting holy casters too much.

2 hours ago, itswicky said:

@AG007 thanks so much for taking the time to send us those suggestions! We really appreciate it. ❤️

You're welcome, I hope it can inspire you. :)

@itswicky

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I've done alot of testing, more to do, ill post numbers shortly, but you're right, parries fine for PvE, might be OP for PvP idk.
Thunder Clap changes are good, but not overpowered at all, it has a massive CD, arcane explosion does more damage and threat.


Some suggestions:

#1
Improve the threat modifier on Devastate, Sunder causes more threat and its just kinda lame, and the fact that it only does 100% damage would make it not
that great in PvP unless you got a long string of parries

#2
Improve holy threat modifier on Righteous Fury, as is its currently pointless to use any holy spells, as arcane explosion is just so much better
not having a cooldown, and having to use arcane explosion as a tank just feels weird

#3
Dont nerf arcane explosion, bring something else up to par

#4
Adding a way to mitigate some more damage while under the effects of stuns/fears would be cool, as is the current talents that do it arent that worth it.
But if people are managing then whatever

 

Edited by moreumph

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1 hour ago, AG007 said:

Yes, holy casters are really starting to shine right now, and the amount of burst they can do might honestly be a tad too much (at least in the PvP scene). We need to remember that the thing about holy magic is that it cannot be resisted, so holy will always do full damage to the target and it allows the holy caster to invest in other stats than spell penetration.

I kinda feel like the Surge of Light buff was unnecessary, especially considering that you do a flat buff to Smite itself. Surge of Light was already an attractive talent before, but I suppose the change was made to make holy casters more viable, and if thats the case I think there are better ways to do that.

Here's an other suggestion.
Let's say that you undo the Surge of Light damage buff and instead make it like this:
File:Spell holy surgeoflight.png
Surge of Light: Your spell criticals and Holy Fire damage-over-time effect have a 25/50% chance to cause your next Smite or Flash Heal spell to become instant cast, cost no mana but be incapable of a critcal hit. This effect lasts 10 sec.

By doing this you give Holy Casters a better flow in their rotation. Also the Righteous Flames (holy fire RE) becomes a lot more viable because the increased duration of the dot would essentially mean more Surge of Light procs. And in context with this, you could make Holy Fire dot scale with haste and/or make it able it critically hit.
Another idea could be adding 50% healing reduction effect to Holy Fire dot.

I honestly think that such change would easily allow you to cut a good chunck of some of the burst power without hurting holy casters too much.

You're welcome, I hope it can inspire you. :)

@itswicky

I'm not really understanding your proposed rework here, it doesn't really make much sense. The SoL buff was definitely needed as the cast from the Smite with no potential to crit was pretty much useless - as you still need to wait for the GCD to start casting again. The buff to SoL actually makes it worth spending 2 TE on due to it actually making the Smite worthwhile to cast even though it cant crit..

Additionally, the proccing on holy fire dot you proposed opens up really stupid things in pvp, as youd potentially be able to spam Smites instant cast for 10 seconds.. itd be the instant caster BS we already dealt with in the past but potentially even worse. It also additionally makes it really useless in PvE, as instant cast Smites that cant crit while being locked to the GCD anyways is NOT a DPS increase. The dmg on proc of SoL is definitely needed. The only thing I kind of think would be a good change here is Holy Fire dot being able to crit, but honestly - the holy buffs have made it far more than viable. Prbly one of the better casters ingame right now, now.

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