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Feedback on Ravenholdt from an Outlaw perspective

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First things first, I just wanted to say that this is no means a bash on the server at all. Ravenholdt has surprised me quite a lot and I’ve had more World PvP than I ever had on Laughing Skull in terms of large scale fights. Of course this can be down to new server hype but the concept of the server is great but personally I feel a lot of things need touching up on and will discuss the few important ones in my opinion.

Criminal Intent Debuff (Interacting with other players)

As pretty much every player who has had a decent amount of /played this weekend will know, the criminal intent debuff had its flaws. Players weren’t able to heal other players who had the debuff meaning playing as an outlaw was near impossible if you were in fair fights as healers were useless. There were also other issues such as you not being able to trade, can’t use 2 seater mounts or the book of ascension. 
Most of these issues were fixed, there is still some issues with doing this but we’ve been told to just remake the party, this can be quite problematic as yesterday in a 25 player raid to counter Zen’s 40 man raid, we didn’t exactly have the time to remake the entire group so some players died and lost gear because we couldn’t heal them or anything. I know this issue is made aware of so hopefully we get an update soon.

Criminal Intent Debuff (Not being able to go into your own territory)

I flagged this up with a GM personally as it makes absolutely no sense in my eyes why it’s a thing. The way that the criminal intent buff works is that you are hostile to all guards; this buff can last up to 30 minutes and refresh itself back to 30 minutes every time you engage in more PvP. As we know, Outlaws have been ‘banished’ to Booty Bay and Goblin Zones such as Ratchet.
Currently, if you play as an Outlaw and get this debuff, if you run anywhere near booty bay or ratchet you’re going to get instantly one shot. I feel that these guards have no reason to be included in the debuff and should be limited to faction based cities and not neutral zones as having this debuff makes doing anything impossible (which will be explained in my next point)

This has supposedly been fixed so you can ignore

Criminal Intent Debuff (Feeling stuck with nothing to do)

Having this debuff feels like a huge obstacle to just playing the game, I understand the concept of an Outlaw being that you should be banished from certain places for betraying your own faction and all of that but you really can’t do much. An example of this is that the guild I play with <Outlaws> did some PvP in the Barrens. We completely wiped the zone and wanted to go kill alliance players. We had to sit in Barrens running around doing nothing for half an hour just so we could be allowed to take the boat to booty bay and run to Westfall. I and other guildies have expressed concerns that there’s really not much to do and that you can’t travel around while you have this debuff on. Personally I don’t understand the point of having both an Outlaw buff and a Criminal buff as they do the same thing (at level 60 atleast) and having the criminal buff for such a long amount of time consistently really reduces the amount of things you can do (get attacked whenever you try and hand in your daily quests also, unfriendly with Nozdormu etc)

Daily PvP Quests

I’m just going to be blunt and honest on this one. These quests are not PvP related at all, they’re not challenging at all and they need to be changed because the rewards you get are too good for the amount of effort you put in.

I got myself to Best in Slot gear in about a day of playing, through doing all my daily quests and the seasonal quest to get the epic trinket. I did not die once throughout the entire thing and did most of my quests solo or as two players. 

The quests I’ve come across so far: kill 6x mobs (4 different mobs) and kill 10x mobs (2 different mobs). One is without dying, there’s also a timed quest to kill wolfs and deer but once again this was a 15 minute timer for a 5 minute quest (solo)

Quests need to be PvP related, make outlaws kill protectors, make protectors kill outlaws and introduce something to do with winning a 1v1 in the Gurubashi arena (obviously when we get to that level cap). The quests don’t feel PvP related and players are getting good blues for spending 5 minutes killing a few mobs and then running away if they see anyone to make sure they complete the don’t die section.

Longer Caps

In my eyes, the level cap helps casual players keep up with content which I thought was one of the main selling points. Players can balance their work/school with the server and not be held back by joining a server like LS or Andorhal and playing against full T2 players. 

I understand the cap gets longer over time but I feel that it should’ve been extended a least a few days. In the 25v40 fight I had against <The Law> yesterday, a lot of their players had around 600-700 health which would tell me that they are in green gear and probably don’t have all slots equipped. I’ve seen a few players say that as soon as they were ready to get involved with level 20 content, it’s being pushed to level 30. I understand level 20 content is not as fun as level 50 content but the caps should be consistent in my eyes to actually allow these casual players to experience endgame content.

Guards don’t force players to drop loot as advertised

Self explanatory point, I’ve died in Orgrimmar, Crossroads, Westfall, Redridge to Guards and have never dropped a chest due to this. I understand why protectors can be annoyed when we’re allowed to freely run over guards who crit me for 80 health when I have 1.6k health as I just kill people and loot their chests, a guard will kill me and I’ll lose nothing. So this point is mainly for protectors although I do not play as one.
If anyone has any feedback, feel free to discuss below as I’d love to see this server develop and some of these things to be addressed in the near future.

Edited by Aaron_

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My guy Aaron.

you're making some valid points, and tbh. I support everything that has been said in this post. So far, the server has brought so much fun, but sadly also a lot of frustration, specially as an outlaw. The concept is really good but please take some of the above stated issues into consideration and do something about em' fast!

A vast majority of the outlaw players shares the concern regarding the criminal intent debuff. Obviously, as Aaron said, we're banished from our main cities which is fine and we chose to go down that path... But being banished from the entire game for 30 minutes is beyond ridiculous and it is so frustrating it hurts.. You absolutely have to do something about this!

I thought of an innovative way to at least deal with getting the debuff out in the world. You could  add a system similar to the guards "stealth detection" system. They have a certain range, in which they can see stealthed people regardless of their level and stealth increasing talents. Adding a system where you'd get the criminal intent debuff only within a certain range of a guard, would add a more realistic and less punishing (for outlaws) feel to the game... Instead of getting the debuff literally everywhere in the world, and even for killing someone who attacked you first, you'd have to be witnessed doing a crime either by a guard or by a 3rd player. Protectors could be given the ability to witness you doing something criminal, and then give you the criminal intent debuff.. This would also add some diversity to the factions.

Anyway just a thought, keep up the good work!



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Most of the daily quests automatically had PvP content, because outlaws was running in groups slaying protectors.
Which then caused us to group up and do the quests while pvp'ing outlaws, I had pretty fun doing it & also helping other players with the quests so they wouldn't get ganked.

Beside that, I agree with you

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As an outlaw player I agree with everything said in the stuff that were stated above. Hopefully changes will be made.

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Having to do pve dungeon content in pure pvp builds is awful.

Having to do pvp content in a pve build is awful.

Trying to do pvp dailys in a spec that can pvp and pve? Impossible, get decimated by players with pure pvp specs or players in groups.

Even if you group up with other players, if theyre not a 100% dedicated pvp spec, youre gonna have a bad time.

Somone dies in a dungeon? Walk back or pay 3g to reset a spell to rez them, as nobody wanted to waste 2 ae. 

Seems rediculous to be forced into so much pve content to get our seasonal cap.

Also, as an alliance player trying to be lawful, when another lawful alliance player attacks my horde friend, and they refuse to stop.(if its red its dead) I have no choice but to go outlaw to defend my companion. Feels so wrong as a lawful protector who made 1 horde friend throughout this war, that i have to kill another protector, on my side of the war to protect my friend, thus my protection can only be done through being an outlaw. Im not sure if thats good game design with crossfaction being a thing, it certainly feels awful in practice. Unable to help your friend without murdering one of your own lawful protectors, as somone whos trying to be lawful.

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@saronus Yeah thats the biggest problem of this system, a criminal system shouldn't have been faction related, an unprovoked attacker should be labaled a criminal regardless of factions exactly for the reason that the server is otherwise factionless in almost every other aspect and abuses and unwanted things like those that you stated happened. All of ascension's systems are bad game design even if they had good ideas...

Edited by rosen4

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