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Ashsj1992

Overscaling is MMO Poison

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Overscaling Was always going to be an issue with this RE system
Its toxic for an MMO, with the current scaling more suffer than benefit
I am one of those that benefit and even i can say it has many flaws.

Ascension is based around overscaling your character and using that to compete
It would be a far better experience if Theorycrafting and Skill was the leading factors to success

After i compete and beat another player in PvP i would love to says its down to my 8 years of experience with WoW PvP
But i can't justify that gratification.
Most of the time it's because i have simply spend more time working on character preparations
Time spend playing should be rewarded with combat effectiveness however it's about finding a balance
I believe the template left by Blizzards stat gearing is a good balance

The results of RE's Stacking is:
Newer players feeling week
Time spend farming -> Skill
Time spend farming -> Theorycrafting
Generally just another time waster before your viable
Over attached to gear, discouraging WPvP  "Edit"

An alternative:
Bring in Glyphs instead
These Glyphs Should be Powerful
But much easier to obtain than 17 RE's..
While also being less effective than 17 RE's.

To much of anything positive can become a negative

Another example of this is i have had 4 Coffee's to day & now i'm writing this at 2AM..
Yet i will certainly need that Coffee in the morning before work :)

Edited by Ashsj1992

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19 hours ago, Frostbolt/Rank1#LS said:

I agree with you completely. Also another problem with Random Enchants is that they make you 2 attached to your gear because your RE's make or break your build, and that makes people even less likely to wanna do WPVP.

  While I can understand the where the OP is coming from, and I can understand the concept of this making you attached to your gear. Wouldn't it just become trading one vice for another? Instead of being attached to the gear, one now becomes attached to their talents that will either make or break their build.

 

On ‎7‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 8:17 PM, Ashsj1992 said:

Remove RE's
Improve Talents
Open up more creative builds options with talent options

    I think that might be the issue. I think all of the options are already there, people are just not using them because it's easier to copy what other people are doing instead of going out on that limb to make something unique. Not saying that is wrong, we all play our own way. I just think that it kind of defeats the purpose of the PA concept.

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I have never played an MMO with more Scaleing than Ascension and i can see many problems because of this.
If a decrease in % scaling happened it wouldn't change customisation and freedom, which is what makes Ascension so unique.
The customisation would simply become around the talents and gameplay more than the gear.

A new Glyph system could be a good replacement which wouldn't make us as attached to gear
While being less time consuming than farming 17 RE's
If this isn't as powerful as 17 RE's it would also solve the overscaleing issues

All i know is if i win against players in PvP i want it be because of theorycrafting, Skill and gear
Not mostly all down to the fact im using fully RE'ed gear.

I mean the difference between 1 player that's full RE'ed and a player that isn't is just obscured.
Im sure we have all noticed how 1 sided BG's can be here, 1 over tuned player can solo the outcome a large group fight
Simply because of passive % increases rather than anything else.
While this also makes build balancing issues much harder to fix. 

Scaling balance is something that Blizzard ultimately failed at later on, the PvP templates for example..
There is an optimal balance to be found but this isn't it.

 

Edited by Ashsj1992

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One of my thoughts is to implement the Glyph system, overlap it with REs, then make it so that you have a maximum number of REs including Glyph-based ones. So people who have only found a small number of REs can have them all in Glyphs, while high-end players can stick their vital REs into Glyphs so that they lose nothing of build-enabling (a toxic element of the RE system, to be sure, but one we can't live without) when they lose a PvP fight. High Risk could have one Glyph drop at high levels, so that they're not completely secure, and confining to one RE/Glyph copy at a time further limits the risk reduction, but you lose very little of what your build requires to compete on death.

Adding current-raid-equivalent PvP gear is a must, as this then offers a way to easily replace gear to return to on-par for those who consistently get away with not losing their items messing up once. This leads to a healthier game state, because people aren't going to lose hours of risky grind if they lose a single PvP match, thus making them more willing to take the risk.

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Im kinda fresh... keep on coming on and off for over a year now lol

Never liked idea of Random enchants... seems like a pain in the ass and one of reasons I left the game. Giving it another shot to see if I can digg into it.

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Made this Post 7 months ago..
Only now they have started to change the RE limit to x3 instead of x5
Funny that.. "facepalm"

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6 hours ago, Ashsj1992 said:

Made this Post 7 months ago..
Only now they have started to change the RE limit to x3 instead of x5
Funny that.. "facepalm"

And it's not even going to help against overscaling, because the top  tier builds have a ton of re's to choose from meaning they can just swap out a few different re's and still do the same dps.

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Just now, Ashsj1992 said:

@SirGank

Yeah it is certainly not enough, but it is a step in that direction.
My point is how long it has taken to make that small step
 

It's not a step in the right direction, All it's doing is killing builds that use utility re's that need 5 of them to even work, while re's that stack damage and stats aren't actually affected much, you're still going to see people pulling 4-6k dps after this change. All this is doing is killing builds that are on the lower end of tier.

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@SirGank 

"It's not a step in the right direction"    In your opinion, this is not a fact.

By your logic if reducing RE stacking isn't going to help 
Then i can only assume increasing RE stacking will help
I'll just go ahead and stack Improved Whirlwind 17 times and 1 shot a party of undergear players. 

Just because new problems have been created doesn't mean it isn't a step the right direction
The issue you mentioned should be addressed as well.

I can understand that this changes the balance of some builds
Such as Mutilate, its very easy to stack 17 RE's all increasing the damage of that 1 ability
This is an issue with the RE options available for some builds, which is something that can be corrected.

 

Edited by Ashsj1992

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5 hours ago, Ashsj1992 said:

@SirGank 

"It's not a step in the right direction"    In your opinion, this is not a fact.

By your logic if reducing RE stacking isn't going to help 
Then i can only assume increasing RE stacking will help
I'll just go ahead and stack Improved Whirlwind 17 times and 1 shot a party of undergear players. 

Just because new problems have been created doesn't mean it isn't a step the right direction
The issue you mentioned should be addressed as well.

I can understand that this changes the balance of some builds
Such as Mutilate, its very easy to stack 17 RE's all increasing the damage of that 1 ability
This is an issue with the RE options available for some builds, which is something that can be corrected.

 

Wow way to not read my post at all and then try to straw man it. That's not how mutilate is built at all. Mutilate works on energy gain re's crit chance re's and a energy gain re llegendary and then after you get that the few re spots left go to damage re's. you don't stack 17 damage re's that's now how it works.

 

Explaine to me how this 3 re limit is a set in the right direction? it's not lowering scaling of stats seeing as tho re's can only be used once, it's not hurting any of the major builds much as they have back up re's to fill in the gaps. so how exactly is it a step in the right direction?

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@SirGank

I hate debating with you to be honest, i find you argumentative and tunnel visioned with ulterior motives for debating.
So i may scan read your replies yes, however i'm not sure what i have misunderstood in this case. 

"That's not how mutilate is built at all" why do you sprout everything as if it's fact.

I know how Mutilate works, i was referring to PvP. 
Being that PvP is situational it is undebatable from your point of view
considering i didn't even give you my RE list with a build and purpose for that build.

In PvP i find it much better to focus on value of the GCD than energy as you wont be spamming Muti on every GCD.
Your much better hitting hard with Muti and pooling energy with CC GCD's instead of heavy energy investment
While even if you tried to spam it: Uptime, CC and Defensive CD's  from both sides can often get in way. 

For example: 

x1 Festering Wounds
x1 Omen of Clarity 
x1 One-Handed Weapon Spec
x1 Crusade
x1 Killer Instincts
x3 Find Weakness
x3 Opportunity
x3 Puncturing Wounds
x3 Close Quarters Combat

As you can see the focus is mostly on the GCD value of Muti
AP scaling is not the best for Muti so i would give crit priority with energy in mind.
the Crit RE 's with talented Focused Attacks, Leg RE and double Omen is enough energy in PvP for most cases. 
However you could use a burst focused Muti which runs double Cold Blood and Warcry and exchanging any Crit investment for Dmg.

Why did you even start debating Mutilate with me, does it matter ? 
Even if you disagree with my RE list the point i was making still stands, it was just an example, so argumentative it is ridiculous.
Muti is one of the builds that isn't really affected much by the RE limit, so my point was an agreement to your point.

Yes with current RE options to some builds the RE limit has little impact because of the backup RE's i agree
Which is why those builds should be looked into by changing the RE's available to them.
However at the very least those Backup RE's is a small nerf to scaling, but it is not enough.
Hence why i described this as a first step instead of a success. 

Can we be done now ? 

Edited by Ashsj1992

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23 minutes ago, Ashsj1992 said:

@SirGank

I hate debating with you to be honest, i find you argumentative and tunnel visioned with ulterior motives for debating.
So i may scan read your replies yes, however i'm not sure what i have misunderstood in this case. 

"That's not how mutilate is built at all" why do you sprout everything as if it's fact.

I know how Mutilate works, i was referring to PvP. 
Being that PvP is situational it is undebatable from your point of view
considering i didn't even give you my RE list with a build and purpose for that build.

In PvP i find it much better to focus on value of the GCD than energy as you wont be spamming Muti on every GCD.
Your much better hitting hard with Muti and pooling energy with CC GCD's instead of heavy energy investment
While even if you tried to spam it: Uptime, CC and Defensive CD's  from both sides can often get in way. 

For example: 

x1 Festering Wounds
x1 Omen of Clarity 
x1 One-Handed Weapon Spec
x1 Crusade
x1 Killer Instincts
x3 Find Weakness
x3 Opportunity
x3 Puncturing Wounds
x3 Close Quarters Combat

As you can see the focus is mostly on the GCD value of Muti
AP scaling is not the best for Muti so i would give crit priority with energy in mind.
the Crit RE 's with talented Focused Attacks, Leg RE and double Omen is enough energy in PvP for most cases. 
However you could use a burst focused Muti which runs double Cold Blood and Warcry and exchanging any Crit investment for Dmg.

Why did you even start debating Mutilate with me, does it matter ? 
Even if you disagree with my RE list the point i was making still stands, it was just an example, so argumentative it is ridiculous.
Muti is one of the builds that isn't really affected much by the RE limit, so my point was an agreement to your point.

Yes with current RE options to some builds the RE limit has little impact because of the backup RE's i agree
Which is why those builds should be looked into by changing the RE's available to them.
However at the very least those Backup RE's is a small nerf to scaling, but it is not enough.
Hence why i described this as a first step instead of a success. 

Can we be done now ? 

I have no ulterior motives other then saying that the three re limit isn't going to do anything to combat overscaling. You're the one that brought up mutilate and about stacking 17 times. but sure we can be done.

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