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Pytho8

Just ramblings on a forum, with questions and suggestions!

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Looking at the patchnotes and feel like this was a boost to all melee and to frostbolters... not salty, just feel that the closer we get to AQ, the less players will be playing because of the lack of variety in the game. One of the slogans for this server is (in the line of) "Build your class fantasy". But how can we play our class fantasy when it's just some builds that are viable for high end raids? Some casters got all love and hugs, melee has gotten nerfs and buffs all over the place,but still no spell school focus on casters as a whole. When will we see a holy build that can compete with other casters without being hybrid? When will we see a arcane build that can keep a stable dps as high as other casters without being drained of mana? I get that during vanilla, rogues were the highest dps players outside of mages. But are we really playing vanilla or are we playing ascension? I feel there is a difference between both.

Balancing spells, talents and random enchants is a massive job in which I sincerely hope you (ascensioncrew) have a team representing all walks of the game, not just pvp or pve. A team consisting of people who are doing not just well in their own fantasy class, but can help improve other fantasies.

And I am not saying "buff this or that" or "nerf this and that", l am simply asking again when the changes that was promised by Zen would come, will arrive.

I get that balancing comes and goes, but I have yet to see a new announcement on a balancing pack that will change the game for a lot of players. Not saying that people would have to change their current build, but be able to change into their class fantasy and still be able to go AQ40. 

And another thing. The changes done on ascension patches and so on, why does laughing skull and andorhal have the same patches when they are two very different servers? Would the same patch for both servers fix issues on both sides? One server punishes you for dying in PvP, one is a "normal" server. Nerfing and buffing seems to be something that should more actively done on LS rather than Andor. Sure, people will complain about stuff on Andor, but there is no immediate rush to fix it in the same way as it would be on LS.

I'm not insinuating that pvp/pve should receive less love on Andor. I'm just saying that minor patches for nerfs and buffs probably needs to be pushed more on LS than Andor. Packs seems more like an Andorhal thing (with announcements in advance) so that people can farm up orbs and stuff. 

Like I wrote in the title, these are ramblings and suggestions and questions from a guy who has been here since launch and been desperately trying to get a bunch of builds, not just for myself but for a lot of players, of the ground and into raids. I have spent so many hours in this game and thinking about stuff for it, that it's like my second job. I'm not questioning judgements, developers or game masters, they got the final say regardless of what I think. I'm questioning what's up and what's gonna happen.

And I'm afraid that if there is no updates or changes coming to casters as a whole soon, they way it was promised, I will sadly become less passionate about the game, the community and the project in general. I'm not saying that it would be a loss for you (ascensioncrew or the community), but it's just sad that the loss of interest hits me on a progression server where I theoretically can do the one thing I dreamed of during my time on retail vanilla wow. 

If you actually read this wall of text, have yourself a treat, and hats off to you.

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I feel like most of your concerns come specifically from a min/max mindset, that also plagued vanilla. Pallies/druids/shamans/priest HAD to be druids. Mages HAD to be frost. Warlocks HAD to be SM/ruin. All of these restrictions were based in the assessment that these were going to maximize their functiobality in a role, so they were given no choice in the matter by their peers (usually).

 

I am of the opinion that there are myriad build options available for each role - but people become too obsessed with "what is best." If you are able to tank mobs, it shouldnt matter what tank spec you hage chosen. If your healing is keeping people up, the same applies. And if your dps is above, say, 1.5k dps, tye same applies again.

DPS seems a special case as the damage meters provide such an obvious measure of performance, but honestly people need to just get over it. I have chosen my dps spec almost exclusively out of aesthetic preference, and I have tweaked it accordingly so it performs. There is satisfaction in not using a meta build because it makes my character more my own unique invention, and if one can do this and pull dps that is deemed adequate enough for raid invites (which can be done with a huge variety of caster schools and dps styles), then there isn't really a problem, in my opinion.

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7 hours ago, Pytho8 said:

And another thing. The changes done on ascension patches and so on, why does laughing skull and andorhal have the same patches when they are two very different servers?

I've been asking/saying this for awhile now. Why is LS balanced the same as Andorhal?

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5 hours ago, Nestor said:

...if one can do this and pull dps that is deemed adequate enough for raid invites (which can be done with a huge variety of caster schools and dps styles), then there isn't really a problem, in my opinion.

That's a big if. Adequate dps for something like bwl is higher than MC and will need to be even higher for AQ40. I'm concerned that some spell schools will not be able to even make the numbers for an invite.

Also, you're talking about your build and it being decent enough. Can I ask what that is and why you don't play holy or arcane? 😛

 

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I am a shadowcaster... but I am always changing my spec looking for how to improve it. I have switched between dots, purely shadowbolts, shadowpriest, and am currently a mix of dots and shadowbolts. Im actually now desperate for orbs so i can try a new tweak and need REs to see if it will work as hoped.

I chose shadow purely out of aesthetic preference, as I have always played a shadowcaster since 2006! Warlock in vanilla, Spriest in BC, warlock in wotlk and cataclysm, and since cata i have been on vanilla private servers as a warlock too. So it is just my preference and part of the fun of this server for me is making my prefered school viable *enough*.

I feel like holy and arcane could be made viable *enough* too. But there will always only ever be one spec that is *the best*. Thats what it means to be *the best.*

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2 hours ago, Nestor said:

I am a shadowcaster... but I am always changing my spec looking for how to improve it. I have switched between dots, purely shadowbolts, shadowpriest, and am currently a mix of dots and shadowbolts. Im actually now desperate for orbs so i can try a new tweak and need REs to see if it will work as hoped.

I chose shadow purely out of aesthetic preference, as I have always played a shadowcaster since 2006! Warlock in vanilla, Spriest in BC, warlock in wotlk and cataclysm, and since cata i have been on vanilla private servers as a warlock too. So it is just my preference and part of the fun of this server for me is making my prefered school viable *enough*.

I feel like holy and arcane could be made viable *enough* too. But there will always only ever be one spec that is *the best*. Thats what it means to be *the best.*

I agree that there is a build that is "the best", but should it differentiate almost 2k dps between the best and a holy or arcane build? With REs, BiS and the best optimization for damage a spell school it would be nice if that number was closer to a ~0,5k dps difference. But that's my opinion. Higher than 0,5 and you got a competitive build for best build, which would mean its more based on the players skill to utilize the build to achieve the best result. I have seen my fair share of single button builds, or facerollonkeyboard builds winning over a structured and well thought out rotation of spells.

Some of the changes that could help is unlocking the arcane tree for balance druids maybe? Some of the stuff I am aiming towards is a ground up rebuild for the system that would take a long time and dedicated developers off certain projects to be able to do. Like lets say they make schools of actions. Melee, ranged, different caster stuff? How would that work out? The balancing for it would be a long process, but the reward would be a much more balanced end result perhaps?

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Oh well yeah I agree with your philosophy - but my impression was that this is what they're doing anyway? I.E. tweaking talents and specs to prevent any one spec standing too tall or any other spec lacking so much that it isnt at the very least viable. It's just that it is a long, slow, process.

 

Currently I feel any spell school with the right thought and itemization, could get 1.5k dps with pre-raid BIS. Same goes for melee dps builds and hunter builds. If all dps in a raid do 1.5k dps, they should be able to beat any boss' enrage timer. So they should all therefore be viable. Maybe not great enough for epeen bragging rights, but if that is what you're chasing, then you make chasing that cookie cutter *best build* for yourself an inevitability.

 

While I agree that some specs like conflag or TG are currently standing taller than all others, I do not feel this is game breaking at all. The viable choices are all still there, and I believe the balance team is working at reducing this gap over time. I'd rather they do it incrementally rather than a groundup rework, as it let's us learn over time as well. I've remade my spec about 10 times in trying new things to get higher numbers, and that process is one of the things I like the most about ascension as a whole.

 

I do agree though, that of all schools, arcane is probably the hardest one to make viable. As far as I know, all you have is arcane missles? Even then, you can max out your sp, and there is a legendary RE for it, so it's not like you're just totally out of luck. Holy already seemed perfectly viable as far as I could tell. The vanilla design also has inbuilt limitations that were rectified with BC (arcane blast, anyone?) Getting some cross functionality with the mage and druid arcane spells does seem like a legit suggestion - but I don't feel like achieving tweaks like that demand anything outside the current balance philosophy.

 

So TL'DR you should totes submit to suggestions some means of integrating the druid and mage arcane stuff, so that pre-BC arcane school casters can have a some more options to play with!

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