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Tekkies

Portable Altars LS

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Can you please please please explain your reasoning behind adding this? 

It has literally no benefits to the server, WPvP is already massively declining then you add this? Honestly haven't been annoyed with things like overpriced transmogs, mounts that don't require epic riding to have 100% speed or even the fact you have to have a book to train abilities efficiently. 

But this is an absolute joke. When people are visiting the RE table it is pretty much the ONLY time they are in their best gear even if they bring 3 pieces felcommed at least you still get gold but no, now you can pay $25 to never have to leave SW literally EVER, seems like a really good deal to anyone who doesn't want to lose their gear. 

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Bump! Would like to see some interaction with this as it was stated on Zens stream this item would NEVER be added to LS, so please elaborate on why it has, and why its on a 30 min CD

 

EDIT: I'm really annoyed because you have a nice idea for a server sure, I understand you need donations to fund everything but why this? There was an idea about putting RE tables in capitals, or even starter RE tables and yeah that was a great idea. I'd literally rather have RE tables in capitals than only a select few spending money and donating to have RE tables where ever they like. How can you POSSIBLY in a million years deem this as a fair change and a change that will improve the player base? Pay 25 dollars for that extra safety and security if not having to go to the RE table. 

Edited by Tekkies

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Hey Tekkies

 

A lot of important points to make here. To start, this is the first of a large handful of changes we'll make to mystic altars/rerolling. While we were looking at analytics, the data was clear that the mystic altars out in the world were causing a huge portion of players to quit. New players would go to the altar, get killed by a veteran player, and quit before even achieving their first Mystic Extract. While we acknowledged and really weighed heavy on the fact that Mystic Altars created World PvP they weren't creating the meaningful world PvP that we wanted to see and were significantly hurting our retention. 

So here is what we are dealing with, The majority of 60s who quit LS did so with ZERO mystic extracts and maybe a few rerolls. The majority of people quitting never experienced one of the biggest parts of end-game and the quickest way to boost your pvp power early on. I mean... one green extract and a few orbs and you can have 5 green enchants for a nice boost of power for pretty cheap. But those same players who NEED that small boost the most were never ever to obtain it because altars are camped. You can't even really be a contender in WPvP without some enchants.

 

This change doesn't hurt world pvp... it's simply replacing no-risk ganking with challenging pvp. Now the people heading to world altars will actually be a challenge... or are you only comfortable fighting fresh 60s who can't really contend with you? We want to get away from "high-risk" or "hardcore" pvp in the form of one-shotting fresh 60s while they have a giant confusing menu open. That's not exciting pvp. That's no-risk pvp for the person doing the ganking, and it lowers population significantly. We want to create MEANINGFUL PVP. We create meaningful pvp by reducing the barriers of entry and allowing more players to actually obtain the ability to fight back(enchanting gear safely).

 

What we plan to do is create World PvP Events or ExpBonuses/incentivizes for the World altars so they will be a hotspot for informed, veteran pvp. A place for people who know about the system, have some enchants and know what they are getting into.

 

Ultimately, what this will lead to is more players actually passing the barrier for entry into competitive PvP. That means more players who can challenge you. It gets old for both sides when fights are totally one-sided. This change will ultimately be a one miniscule step to bridging that gap.

 

 

A few noteworthy mentions are the portable altar can be used by anyone, like the Book of Ascension, but it has a short duration of 3 minutes and a long 3 hour cooldown.

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41 minutes ago, Kaladin said:

or are you only comfortable fighting fresh 60s who can't really contend with you?

Are you really making this into a personal attack? How very bizarre I expected more at least from you of all people @Kaladin

I would MUCH MUCH rather it be made so there is an RE table in capitals EXCLUSIVELY for people with less than say 4/5 extracts (seen as they are so easy to get now). But you decided NOT to make this change, and instead are charging $25 for the privilege of using an RE table in Stormwind. If this is really to "help" fresh 60s, why isn't it just like what was suggested in a previous forum topic? Why did you have to make it a donation store item. 

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34 minutes ago, Tekkies said:

I understand you need donations to fund everything but I'm 99% sure you are making enough to cover employment and the server stability. So why do you feel the need to rake in more and more money?

 

charging $25 for the privilege of using an RE table in Stormwind. If this is really to "help" fresh 60s, why isn't it just like what was suggested in a previous forum topic? Why did you have to make it a donation store item. 

Let me start by saying that this item is usable by everyone, similar to how the Book of Ascension is usable by everyone. One altar can be used by every single player in the area the same way one book is usable by every player in that area. 

Items like this help Ascension grow. We have a lot of staff who work really really hard that we aren't able to compensate right now, myself included, even top end administration who opt to forego compensation in order to ensure other developers can continue working on the project. If this item allows us to compensate more staff and allow the server to continue growing while improving gameplay then it is a win across the board. 

I'm picking up contracting jobs to pay my bills while I work on Ascension. Our senior most staff members have paid developers out of pocket to ensure the future of this project. We are very lucky to have reserve funds to keep our servers running, and those funds are set aside for that sole purpose, but at the end of the day we don't just want to keep the server running. We want the server to really thrive, and that means developing great content. Great developers don't come cheap. 

We don't think new players will have trouble finding RE tables when needed if they don't wish to donate. Players rarely have trouble finding a Book of Ascension. I really believe that this change will help the team and the players, and as more players acquire the altar it will be even more and more available. 

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2 hours ago, Kaladin said:

While we were looking at analytics, the data was clear that the mystic altars out in the world were causing a huge portion of players to quit.

You sure it's not cause you guys completely delete builds instead of buffing others or just giving them a love tap? You effectively screw people that invested in gear and RE's for that build. Unfortunately I can't find it but I remember reading or hearing you guys saying you didn't want to completely nerf a build because you didn't want to fuck someone over that invested a lot into their build. Imagine you're a new player and you just spent all of your mystic runes you farmed (probably getting smashed in bgs) or even what small amount of gold you have left to get extracts. Then you use those extracts (which yes, are easier to get now, but mystic orbs are not), and the 30 mystic orbs you spent forever farming because god forbid you even know what DME orb runs are as a new player. Finally you find out that instead of just tuning down damage they removed a core part of your build. This isn't even counting gear that you spent gold on which has now halved in value and mostly nobody wants. Would you want to keep playing after that?

Edited by Pumpfake

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@Kaladin Why don't you just make the areas around altars sanctuary, like 20 yard radius around the altar or something like that? That way there are still a risk running to the altar but when you get there you are safe from PvP and free to use heartstone or portal when you are done. 

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Just now, AG007 said:

Kaladin Why don't you just make the areas around altars sanctuary, like 20 yard radius around the altar or something like that? That way there are still a risk running to the altar but when you get there you are safe from PvP and free to use heartstone or portal when you are done. 

He explained on discord there are going to be featured added to RE tables to make them a hot spot for PvPers 

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Sad thread, CM making the biggest excuse ever for a problem thats only fixed if you pay. The majority of players quit without any RE rerolls because the systems a pain in the ass. Making people pay money to fix that is just a big mistake, lately the server seems to be totally focused on revenue and not a good gameplay experience. And yeah you could argue that "Everyone can use it tho", that doesn't matter. You're making someone pay to help the rest of the server where you wont.

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41 minutes ago, moreumph said:

Sad thread, CM making the biggest excuse ever for a problem thats only fixed if you pay. The majority of players quit without any RE rerolls because the systems a pain in the ass. Making people pay money to fix that is just a big mistake, lately the server seems to be totally focused on revenue and not a good gameplay experience. And yeah you could argue that "Everyone can use it tho", that doesn't matter. You're making someone pay to help the rest of the server where you wont.

We are making decisions with the data we have. If this system doesn't solve the problem the way we think it will then we aren't any worse off than we were before and we can look at more solutions.

To be honest man, I'm kind of disappointed to hear you can say we are focused on "revenue over gameplay." Look at the DP shop. Does that really, honestly, look like the DP shop of a game focused on revenue to you? If we were focused on revenue over gameplay as you claim we would have way more items in that shop that actually gave players a competitive advantage or were required for the experience. The DP shop is set up in a way that rewards players who donate to the server, but it absolutely isn't required and I have never heard of a player losing a fight and blaming it on how much DP another player had.

This is one part of a few changes aimed at altars. This was something we were able to implement immediately that would yield results immediately.

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I think its very hard for newer players to get optimal REs on their gear. It takes a lot of mystic orbs, considering they are soulbound and not freely tradeable. Even if player manages to get good REs on whole gear  he might be disappointed with his build performance and stay stuck with "unfun" build for a while because again it takes a lot of resources to respec to newly enchanted spec. Does staff think mystic orb cost/trade restrictions is adequate right now?

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Honestly? I never liked altars being placed in the world on high risk server. There is a reason why quest hubs are safe zones.  So that people could read quest info without being worried all the time of getting ambushed. It is the same with altars. People want to calmly roll REs, look at what they are rolling and not stare around every second in paranoia and fear of getting killed.

I always said that altars should be placed in cities. But if we cant get that, those timely altars are at least something. They need to increase duration by at least twice though, its too low now.

As for motivation to go to do world pvp, we need that for sure. But not in form of altars.

Edited by mindw0rk

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Not to add to any ideas here but I think a good amount of people quitting before getting an extract just didn't know what they were getting into and suddenly realized how restricting the highrisk endgame is after being ganked anywhere, rather than only being ganked at the altar. The altars might have been the final straw for some but the buildup to get to that point didn't just entirely manifest itself there too.

Edited by Qormagg

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Alters up to blues should just be permanent in the cities, with whites being very cheap, maybe even free. Then epic+ can be risked out in the world maybe. At the end of the day this thread is a pathetic QQ about not getting easy kills and gear.

Maybe it's fun for some to one shot a player for cheap thrills. For a lot more people having other players actually on the server is more fun. Who wants to play in an empty world? Nobody wants to rule a kingdom with no subjects.

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25 minutes ago, wartywarlock said:

At the end of the day this thread is a pathetic QQ about not getting easy kills and gear.

Maybe it's fun for some to one shot a player for cheap thrills. For a lot more people having other players actually on the server is more fun. Who wants to play in an empty world? Nobody wants to rule a kingdom with no subjects.

You obviously missed the entire point of this threat, so please learn to read a post before you try and sum it up to being 'QQ about not getting easy kills and gear'. 

I'm pissed off as there are currently 3 reasons to head out into world. 

Farming 

Invasions 

REing

And one of those has been made optional (via the new item), this was never about killing new players, its about the diminishing amount of WPvP on LS and the fact that one of the 3 big reasons why people head out into world is no longer necessary. I never once mentioned anything about one shorting new players for cheap thrills, in fact I never mentioned killing new players AT ALL so I don't know why the fuck you are talking about that. 

 

But anyway, @Kaladinhas addressed that there are going to be updates to make RE altars in world a hotspot for veterans and WPvPers to make up for the people who buy the item and at the time I wasn't aware of this. I honestly don't think this thread needs any more input about the subject.

Edited by Tekkies

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You think killing people at the place that helps them potentially actually defend themselves is wpvp, nuff said.

Edited by wartywarlock

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50 minutes ago, wartywarlock said:

You think killing people at the place that helps them potentially actually defend themselves is wpvp, nuff said.

You think killing people in a place THAT IS INTENDED FOR WPVP is a bad thing. Nuff said. 

I'm not going to carry on engaging in this petty argument with you when I have no idea who you are, I have never seen you playing LS and I have never seen you speaking on the discord. Your argument is ridiculous, I have been WPvPing every day since LS release, I've spent over 40 days /played in world so I think I have a valid say on the matter of WPvP. 

Edited by Tekkies

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Id chime in but I've no clue how limited the item is since I dont own it, the description says "its not as powerfull as an altar you can find in the world" so there ought to be some more description to that. Just looking at the item in the shop screams "pay to win" for me, till you read the description.

 

So what exactly is this "limitation" the "mini altars" have that you need a open world altar instead for.

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