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Icyrazor

Gear and world pvp

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Currently the gearing progression on LS is incredibly slow and incredibly contrary to the world pvp idea.

In order to get RE's and mystic orbs for them world is a terrible place to do so. The drop rates are super slow and it forces a lot of people to farm in their "farming specs" and to farm completely naked. These adjustments are something that indicates that in order to progress you need to do a PVE build and avoid PVP.
Even with such adjustments the rate of drops is ridiculously low. Which forces the players to do INSTANCED PVE for orbs and runes or do BGs. Prior to the BRD drop rate nerf it was common for a player to do BGs for runes and BRD for orbs because doing battlegrounds for orbs is, once again, incredibly slow especially considering how expensive REs get.


And currently, the only efficient way to get that done is to do battlegrounds. Hours upon hours of being in an instanced zone and not actually doing world pvp as the intention is/was when creating the system.

When it comes to actual gearing up, gold grinding, and being out in the world. Things are too slow and too risky. Most even mildly geared players rarely leave safe zones and when they do, they dont do so alone.
For this reason people usually join big guilds or create random parties and roam in 10 man or 15 man squads which in turn, everytime it is posted on the world chat, makes others less likely to leave and do anything but enter an instanced area or a safe zone.
Nobody bothers leaving the towns and instances alone and instead they wait for groups, which in turn makes players leave cities less often and for lesser periods of time. 
And a big reason to things working that way is because doing anything but is not worth it. Getting gear takes a ridiculous amount of time and currently LS auction house looks like a clown show.
And all that takes in return is to die ONCE to a big group of blue geared players to lose it all.

Most people avoid such a risk. High risk should yield high rewards. But killing 10 players, dying once, and farming for 10 hours in between only to end up with less overall strength and currency in return is senseless.
While PVP is somewhat cool and all, when you get absolutely nothing for it, it feels like a waste of time. When you also lose hours of grinding during it? Well that just feels like a money sink and more of a chore than a fun past time.

And thats what LS currently is, a chore. Farm gold for 10 hours, farm  BGs for hundreds of hours, squander it away in an hour or 2 of wpvp. 


What needs to be changed:
-Drop rates that make it more worth it to be outside than within instanced areas. 
Gear is quicker to obtain than orbs, making orbs actually obtainable in the world would increase the time spent in the world, for anyone trying to get them by a great amount and as of now gear is easily replaceable with gold, but orbs wont be meaning players will have to spend some time out in the world each time they lose a piece.
Runes following the same logic.
-Implement a high risk high reward system that would incentivse players to farm in better gear, through higher yield. ilvl determined drop tables or anything of the sort would make it so players who are not afraid to risk their hard earned items earn more in general to balance out the fact that they lose more if they die.
-Possible additional rewards for world pvp kills. 
Some players were entertaining the idea of increased honor gain from world pvp and total removal of battlegrounds. 
Another idea ive heard is making players also reward a type of currency that could be used to buy gear pieces and a ranking system, similar to BG reputation, based on world pvp kills that would allow greater gear to be bought.
I would personally be happy about wpvp kills also giving some gold in addition to honor as gold is the most liquid currency. ( not necessarily from the players bags ). 

What not to do:
-Further nerf drop rates
-Remove irreplaceable processes of obtaining gear and overall character strength before they become replaceable ( BRD nerf, potential BG removal )
Id believe that reasons for these are obvious but then the BRD nerf happened so i want to make one final statement in regards to recent changes.
Everything is slow, dont slow it down further more. High risk without any reward is something noone is going to participate in.
 

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I agree that something needs to be changed. Right now it's a high risk, low reward system.

Personally, if they do an ilvl system, I'd rather it worked a bit different from your suggestion. I think that there should be a fairly low ilvl cap. As long as you are at or above that cap, you have the best drop rates. That way it prevents the players already geared out from having a huge advantage and gives low geared players incentive to actually wear gear while farming. Just make sure the cap is low enough that someone wearing say half blues, half greens can meet it. Then at least they are wearing something instead of farming naked lol.

I also wouldn't mind seeing a cost reduction on insurance for lower level blue items. Right now you can typically buy items from the AH for cheaper than just insuring them. It makes no sense to insure it.

Those are my suggestions. The drop rate should definitely be increased more one way or another though. Right now the incentive is just too small to farm out in the world. You're probably better off doing a 5 man. This server isn't meant to be played in instances all day. You can tell the devs intend players to be out in the world as much as possible. That's great, but right now it's not really happening.

Edited by Drex
Removed my mistake on how insurance works. Thought it would be better to get rid of to avoid confusion.

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4 hours ago, Drex said:

I agree that something needs to be changed. Right now it's a high risk, low reward system.

Personally, if they do an ilvl system, I'd rather it worked a bit different from your suggestion. I think that there should be a fairly low ilvl cap. As long as you are at or above that cap, you have the best drop rates. That way it prevents the players already geared out from having a huge advantage and gives low geared players incentive to actually wear gear while farming. Just make sure the cap is low enough that someone wearing say half blues, half greens can meet it. Then at least they are wearing something instead of farming naked lol.

I also wouldn't mind seeing a cost reduction on insurance for lower level blue items. Right now you can typically buy items from the AH for cheaper than just insuring them. It makes no sense to insure it. Especially if insurance works the way I think it does. Correct me if I'm wrong, but insurance drops gold regardless of if that item was going to drop. Basically if you insure something, it drops gold every time you die. I think it should be on a per item basis. If you're dropping 2 items, you drop the gold equivalent of those two insured items. That way players can insure more items without a huge gold cost.

Those are my suggestions. The drop rate should definitely be increased more one way or another though. Right now the incentive is just too small to farm out in the world. You're probably better of doing a 5 man. This server isn't meant to be played in instances all day. You can tell the devs intend players to be out in the world as much as possible. That's great, but right now it's not really happening.

Commute gold drops only if you were to drop the item it is commuting. It is possible to die and lose no commute gold. And for the most part i believe noone commutes gear anymore, rather they commute REs, at least thats what i do. As even an epic is easier to come by compared to an epic RE. 

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I suggested a slightly different take on an ilvl system encouraging players to get into the world before.

Essentially, create new open world spawns and areas that require a certain ilvl to farm. Each mob would have an AOE aura that dealt damage to players based on their ilvl. If you have the proper ilvl the aoe does nothing, if you don't... it messes you up fast. This means if you want to go gank people in a zone like this you are required to also bring higher ilvl gear to risk, otherwise the mob aoe will melt you.

The other system I'd like to see implemented is an ilvl based damage scale. Basically, new 60 mobs would scale their damage based on your ilvl, as well as the damage you deal to them. For example, fighting a ilvl 100 mob in ilvl 100 gear would deal 100% damage and take 100% damage. Being below ilvl 100 you would take and deal 2-3% percent more/less per point. On the other side, fighting that same mob in ilvl 200 gear would still only result in 100% damage. This opens up a way to "tier" open world mobs and areas by introducing a variety of areas between 100-however high they want it to go, while requiring pvpers to also risk their gear if they don't want to be 1 shot by the mobs in that area.

They could also take lateral approach and instead of ilvl rework how resists work to fit that same concept.

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WOOW xD as usual bmannion your suggestions are nearly impossible to implement, not thought through at all and straight up stupid ..

And to be honest, considering Ilvl scaling on world mobs opens up so much bug potential, better never mention it again.

And people are wearing next to nothing in world because the risk/rewards feel is right for them in that scenario. 

How can this be so difficult for people to understand, no felcom -> ppl WANT TO wear shit gear BECAUSE others might be stupid and the game itself gives you not exactly 100% control over your survival.

It's not so difficult to motivate ppl to wear their gear, it's not ez to motivate ppl to act retardedly and lose their progressions without ever managing their risk/ reward ratio tho

Ppl then say :

People are being pussies and never leave town - guess they don't want to skirmish with plebs at that time.

People never really risk anything in PvP if they can avoid it, instead, they go in 5 man parties or substitute their good gear with expendable gear. - well people arent 100% stupid, they try to risk manage.

World is not a place where you need your epic gear for, like I said 100 times before, without felcom the amount of stats you get for wearing good gear compared to almost worthless dungeon shit, is in PvP so minimal except for weapons, is EZ counterable with playing good NAKED or having a build that is strong against the other one. So it would be stupid, to move in all their valuable gear outside, fight an almost naked dude who plays better or a build strong against you, fights with him for NO GAIN, gets killed.. losses epics ( on sargeras month progression or maybe unpayable reward) and quits the game. Because he acted stupid and paid for it.

making everything worthless like on LS isn't helping either, the value that actually makes your build rly strong lies in Orbs and REs and those values are most of the times strongly subjective, meaning while a certain RE is good for me and its worth as much as the Orbs took me to craft it on an Item, but for others the RE is either on an item they don't want to destroy or use. ( or it is, prob not worth much then anyway ) .. the subjective value of the Item is only equal to players that play the same build and because of the fact that the REs value can be > the Items value, that again is something you will extremely rarely see drop bc people will try to avoid it then.

Edited by Shiru

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On 2/25/2018 at 7:35 AM, Shiru said:

WOOW xD as usual bmannion your suggestions are nearly impossible to implement, not thought through at all and straight up stupid ..

And to be honest, considering Ilvl scaling on world mobs opens up so much bug potential, better never mention it again.

And people are wearing next to nothing in world because the risk/rewards feel is right for them in that scenario. 

How can this be so difficult for people to understand, no felcom -> ppl WANT TO wear shit gear BECAUSE others might be stupid and the game itself gives you not exactly 100% control over your survival.

It's not so difficult to motivate ppl to wear their gear, it's not ez to motivate ppl to act retardedly and lose their progressions without ever managing their risk/ reward ratio tho

Ppl then say :

People are being pussies and never leave town - guess they don't want to skirmish with plebs at that time.

People never really risk anything in PvP if they can avoid it, instead, they go in 5 man parties or substitute their good gear with expendable gear. - well people arent 100% stupid, they try to risk manage.

World is not a place where you need your epic gear for, like I said 100 times before, without felcom the amount of stats you get for wearing good gear compared to almost worthless dungeon shit, is in PvP so minimal except for weapons, is EZ counterable with playing good NAKED or having a build that is strong against the other one. So it would be stupid, to move in all their valuable gear outside, fight an almost naked dude who plays better or a build strong against you, fights with him for NO GAIN, gets killed.. losses epics ( on sargeras month progression or maybe unpayable reward) and quits the game. Because he acted stupid and paid for it.

making everything worthless like on LS isn't helping either, the value that actually makes your build rly strong lies in Orbs and REs and those values are most of the times strongly subjective, meaning while a certain RE is good for me and its worth as much as the Orbs took me to craft it on an Item, but for others the RE is either on an item they don't want to destroy or use. ( or it is, prob not worth much then anyway ) .. the subjective value of the Item is only equal to players that play the same build and because of the fact that the REs value can be > the Items value, that again is something you will extremely rarely see drop bc people will try to avoid it then.

i usually solo pvp in full bis double BRE. The difference between you and I is that I am the Chad PvPer, and you are the Virgin Gank. While one person is bladestorming 1v6, the other person worries about dropping their dungeons blues.

 

GG ez ofc.

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:D good one . Thanks for supporting my point.

- the unkilled "virgin gank" with 31k HKs. 

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I agree with all points there mate , laughing skull should be treated differently of all other servers and everything needs to happen out in the world with proper risk/reward ratio.

That being said i think even more importantly is to have some places where you can actually play this server the way its meant to be without fear of getting ganked by whole parties ffs.

I'd appreciate it if you take a look at my suggestion and tell me what you think.

 

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One time I was out naked farming and Felheart robes dropped. As I saw the five man team running at me, I deleted them. I would rather die knowing they didn’t get the one item I would have been mad that dropped, then crossing my fingers hoping they didn’t get it. It was probably still my favorite memory of this server.

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