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FruitShopOwner

A potential "solution" to ganksquads

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In general, my response to such things is to become so powerful that no ragtag group would be able to oppose me. But as things are, this probably doesn't work too well with more than a few kinds of builds. Here's a suggestion for something that can help almost any spec participate in world pvp without being driven to form feeble alliances with others just to have a decent chance:

A permanent buff to resilience OR damage to players while not in a party, reduced by 2/3 for each additional person in a party (100% -> 33% -> 11%...). On its own, this can partially be bypassed by ganging up on someone without being in a party. Countering this may not be necessary, though one option might be to make a player take reduced damage if being attacked by multiple players who are not in a party

If the player chooses the damage buff instead of the resilience buff, it should only be active if he delivers the first blow

 

The exact numbers for the buffs can, of course, be decided along the way, but I'd like to offer a few technical comments:

First of all, I'd like to address the issue of characters who already have significant damage mitigation. The effective health of someone with 5000 health and 50% mitigation would be 10k, but for someone with 75% it would be 20,000, and 40,000 for someone with 87.5%. However, I'm almost certain that sources of damage reduction like resilience stack multiplicatively, and so someone who has no armor and 30% resilience would gain the full 30% of the resilience and have 30% mitigation, while someone with 75% armor and 30% resilience would end up with 82.5% mitigation, gaining only about 7% of the original 30%. I think this is acceptable. It may promote a sort of "player raid boss" which may take a party to bring down, similarly to actual NPC bosses, while at the same time it would contribute to the survivability of solo players

Resilience equivalent to an extra 25-35% of damage mitigation or 50-75% increased damage against players may be a decent place to start for this  

 

I think this will offer a fair boost to solo players without negating the cooperative benefits of team play, like for people who actually have friends, but it's 2018, so...

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This is a quality suggestion, i don't know if this particularly would work but something does need to be done for solo players

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Or we implement a consequence driven pvp system and create real risk to being a PK or ganking. While this is a well thought out solution, it will only shift the problem, not cure it. 

The problem is not gankers. It's that there is no incentive to not being in a gank squad. There is no incentive to NOT kill and loot another player. Because of that, it create the pvp environment we have.

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23 minutes ago, bmannion4 said:

Or we implement a consequence driven pvp system and create real risk to being a PK or ganking. While this is a well thought out solution, it will only shift the problem, not cure it. 

The problem is not gankers. It's that there is no incentive to not being in a gank squad. There is no incentive to NOT kill and loot another player. Because of that, it create the pvp environment we have.

Well, if something like this is implemented, being in a group would make you individually weaker - if you get 30% extra resilience when you're alone, you get 10% if you're in a party of two, and ~3% in a party of three (or the buff could just be completely disabled when in a party) - I guess what I'm going for with this is that unless you can properly cooperate with your party, you'd probably be better off fighting alone - a party would not directly overpower a solo player, and they'd be taking a risk by attacking such a player, especially because that one player would potentially be able to loot the entire party if he is victorious

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They desperately need to make it so that half of the zones are multi combat and half the zones are single combat, a bit like Runescape. Single combat means that if you enter combat with somebody, it becomes a 1v1 duel where nobody else can interfere until a player has been out of combat for like 10 seconds. There are multiple leveling zones for each levels so people who level in group can fight others who level in group and solo players can fight solo.

The game right now is just so fucking boring for solo players, there's nothing to do anymore. I can't get gear because there isn't any PvP gear on the server. Everybody out there outgears me because they do PvE so I physically cannot deal the damage to beat 2-3 players who outgears me. There's no way to progress without doing PvE anymore. For these reasons, I'm putting this server on hold until they do something about the solo player situation (which might be never).

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You guys are coming up with solutions on a broken foundation. The "solution" is to increase incentives for solo play while decreasing incentives for gank squads. Buffing players being attacked by a gank squad or segregating zones is trading one problem for a different problem. It's making the symptoms more bearable for you but it doesn't solve anything long term.

I would like to see some spells tuned specifically for solo players that could be a short term and long term solution. For example, an AOE spell that also hits friendly players, and has damage scaled based on how many people are attacking you. Give solo players a real tool against a gank squad, while making it unusable in group pvp as it would kill your allies too. Disable the friendly fire in BGs and Instances. (Perma ban anyone exploiting damage on this by having friends intentionally boost the damage). Create a heal spell that gives you a damage shield based on how many people are attacking you, cause damage reflection based on that number(disable in pve and bgs).

The idea is to create tools that make playing solo more rewarding and viable, not to remove another player's ability to play their way(gank squads). 

Changes like this coupled with expanded open world content that encourage 1 on 1s and group vs group would create more meaningful conflict and give everyone the opportunity to play their way without punishing one segment of the population that will always exist in a ffa pvp game. That being said, they really do need to introduce some risk and consequence to being a PK as it expands gameplay massively and has a ripple effect through every aspect of the server.

 

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2 hours ago, FruitShopOwner said:

Well, if something like this is implemented, being in a group would make you individually weaker - if you get 30% extra resilience when you're alone, you get 10% if you're in a party of two, and ~3% in a party of three (or the buff could just be completely disabled when in a party) - I guess what I'm going for with this is that unless you can properly cooperate with your party, you'd probably be better off fighting alone - a party would not directly overpower a solo player, and they'd be taking a risk by attacking such a player, especially because that one player would potentially be able to loot the entire party if he is victorious

Or they can simply not doing a group and cooperate using discord or something and single target you down.

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4 minutes ago, bmannion4 said:

I would like to see some spells tuned specifically for solo players that could be a short term and long term solution. For example, an AOE spell that also hits friendly players, and has damage scaled based on how many people are attacking you. Give solo players a real tool against a gank squad, while making it unusable in group pvp as it would kill your allies too. Disable the friendly fire in BGs and Instances. (Perma ban anyone exploiting damage on this by having friends intentionally boost the damage). Create a heal spell that gives you a damage shield based on how many people are attacking you, cause damage reflection based on that number(disable in pve and bgs).

The idea is to create tools that make playing solo more rewarding and viable, not to remove another player's ability to play their way(gank squads). 

Changes like this coupled with expanded open world content that encourage 1 on 1s and group vs group would create more meaningful conflict and give everyone the opportunity to play their way without punishing one segment of the population that will always exist in a ffa pvp game. That being said, they really do need to introduce some risk and consequence to being a PK as it expands gameplay massively and has a ripple effect through every aspect of the server.

 

This is such an awful idea to be honest. To go around perma banning players on a case to case basis isn't sustainable, it's impossible to prove who was legitimately attacking and who wasn't.

To have some single combat zones is the only answer. Every other solution will have some sort of abusable exploits. This system has not lead to any segregation in runescape, single players still enter multi combat areas if they add meaningful content there like more rare spawns or something. It's just that they'll have a zone to go to when they just want fair play as well.

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You know, a solution could be reached more efficiently and a lot of time could be saved if a thread's original post is read properly... though I suppose there are downsides to that as well...

I did mention that a buff like this can be "abused" by ganging up on someone without being in a party, and that I don't necessarily believe there's a need to prevent such "abuse". If prevention is desired anyway, there are fairly simple ways, at least conceptually, of achieving it

I do not believe that proper grouping is in the least invalidated by this. In a group, party members can heal each other and benefit from the buffs of others - thus, I expect that this would promote a style of team play more akin to a raid setup, rather than the current commonly encountered mindless gangbang

 

Spells/passives/abilities that are based on how many people are attacking you was actually the idea I had in mind before this - I believe this is another potentially effective solution, but only as passive abilities/buffs, not active spells. However, as I thought about it, I found some weaknesses in this idea which seemed more complicated to counter than those in a flat-buff system

As for banning, I am absolutely averse to the idea. Banning and punishing is almost never a proper solution to anything - resorting to punishment shows that there is a fundamental problem somewhere within the system itself, and a "punishment" is at best a temporary tool to stave off disaster, which can itself be a harbinger of disaster

The idea of single combat zones may be effective, but it leads to segregation - as a solo player, I would feel that I am restricted to a proper existence only in parts of the world, while the rest of the world would be a death trap. I might walk into it, but I'm not too fond of the notion

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A fix is to have it be an increasing buff as players "in combat" with you increases, rather than decreasing with party size, so that you have to have strong buff stacking to make gank squads effecient. And, of course, a PvP speced person who's slowly grinding up and picked damage will just murder your entire group with their stacked mitigation and disables, going from 5v1 to 2v1 in five seconds, if not less. Or padded sumo monsters who exploit mitigation's effect on healing to become nigh unkillable in PvP while having enough PvE abilities to grind up to 60/respec/duelspec/whatever.

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All of these ideas are so bad and easily exploitable. If they're not grouped up, they could just all hit each other once and then everybody would get the PvP group? There is no way for the system to detect that it's a 1v5. Every solution like this is terrible and it doesn't take a lot of brain-power to figure that out.

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