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Guest Jacob

Hunter beasts feedback thread

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Guest Jacob

Hello Ascension players!!

I'm making another feedback thread as the one about feral feedback gave us a great deal of insight into how you prefer to play! We're willing to keep these threads coming as long as you're willing to indulge us with your thoughts and opinions! (I will continue monitoring the past thread so don't feel you're too late to the party if you're only now joining us!)

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In this thread we'll be talking about hunter pets and we would love some feedback on pet gameplay and what you feel and think about our beast sidekicks! :)

 

This topic may feel a bit broad as the investment of AE and TE into your pet will vary greatly from player to player.

We do not want nor will we accept that players feel forced into picking up a pet, it should be a meaningful decision with a comparable cost to strength equation.

 

Our general pet design that we are currently working towards focuses on putting more of your pets basic values(hp/mana and damage) into talents while leaving the utility cheap.

We think this will allow for skillful play and counterplay in both PvE and PvP.

        Notice your enemy went cheap on his pets hp?

        Pound that pussy!  (I'm so fired.)

 

Anyways, here are some guidelines to what we want to discuss with you! (if you feel your topic is missing it's even more important you share!!)

  • How does it currently feel having a hunter pet? Is the AI okay?
  • Do you feel picking up a pet is worthwhile compared to the investment?
  • How do you feel about the current state of pet-oriented abilities like: Tame pet, Revive pet, Mend pet etc?
  • We have talked about a pet-package(with multiple abilities at a discount) not unlike the portal mastery.
  • Is there anything you would like to see implemented(or maybe removed)?

 

What makes a good pet class? How do you want to as play or against pet users? Anything you feel worthwhile adding, please do. We are not making any promises and we have our own design in mind. That said.. this is your chance to shape Ascension to encompass your preferred playstyle! ;)

 

Remember that we are mostly asking for feedback regarding playstyle and gameplay rather than actual strength. We can and will tweak numbers as we go along! 

 

 

Any questions or opinions regarding topics other than beast pet playstyle will be ignored. (maybe we'll accept some input regarding demons if it's related)

 

 

Edited by Jacob

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I've only picked up Hunter pets a few times at 60, so I can't comment on the leveling experience with pets.

 

Back during wotlk and especially during cata, choosing your hunter pet was about filling in a for missing raid buffs. That really isn't a problem in ascension since everything is accessible to everyone.

In Ascension, pet's did about 30-40 dps at level 55 when first tamed which I guess isn't bad, but in terms of class fantasy, it's never going to be possible to create a build where you focus on your pet's damage which a few players might want to try. Kill Command is unaccessible and there's only one talent-tree that affects it (with a lot of sub -par picks for focusing on a pet). Some of the talent tree choices could be buffed to allow for it, but it kinda just ties into a general inflation in TE value. 

On the other hand, Bestial Wrath is super strong with the Beast Within and a very efficient pick for only two TE (and some AE) spent. It pretty much comes down to the strength of Spirit Wolves (or any other pet summoning abilities) vs a pet. If the pet is a better pick, it'll become pretty widespread, but currently, a pet will not survive current damage output during a Bladestorm/Starfall, so it is more reliable to have something you can use more than once in a fight. It's all dependant on which is a better Bestial Wrath vessel. Is that how the Ascension team want to balance around pets?

 

I'm not sure what you want to hear in terms of feedback ? You ask about not discussing strength, but how you balance a class/talent tree so that it is viable seems to be the element of balance most people on the server are interested in.  I hope this is helpful anyway.

 

 

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Guest Jacob

Thanks for your reply Joni. We will definitely make sure pets are more than a bestial wrath vessel. O.o

As for class fantasy we're doing our best to allow more power to be pushed into your Pets through TE, allowing for proper Beastmaster-based builds.

14 hours ago, Joni said:

You ask about not discussing strength, but how you balance a class/talent tree so that it is viable seems to be the element of balance most people on the server are interested in.

We are aware that Pets may feel weak right now, but with investment they can become quite strong! (Besides, numbers we can tweak on a minutes notice if necessary!)

What we want to know is what kind of playstyles you expect to be available on Ascension. What is your pet to you? A UI-interaction that deals 10-15% of your damage, a tank that keeps your foes at a comfortable distance? Maybe an equal companion that you wish be more than a sidekick or tool?

We'll be look into making all kinds playstyles feel more competative in time but we need input on how to prioritize!

 

 

PS: Certain abilities such as Kill Command, Incinerate, Arcane blast and many other wont be available until later expansions. Sorry! :P

Edited by Jacob

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Sorry if my previous post was a bit curt, must've been tired :P

I think it'd be nice if pets could do a considerable amount of a build's damage, but equally my worry is that you would then need to spec into making your pet tankier too, and it'll just end up an inefficient choice for PvP as a pet can easily be killed. It's likely you could balance it for PvE. As some talents linked to pet power are based of Hunter abilities such as Arcane Shot, it seems like playing a hunter might be necessary to get the most out of your pet. Then again pet power is based on agility anyway, so really hunter and feral dps are the only viable picks for a hunter pet. Maybe you'd want to make different types of pets that scale with different stats so melee/casters could consider using them, or maybe you're happy with the design now? Personally I think it's fine as it is.

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i like pets and i cant possibly think of a build that doesn't include one BUT pets here are a not worth the investment i went yesterday Molten Core raid with a beastmaster/ranged dps spec and a raptor pet picked all pet dmg increasing talents but pets attacks were very weak against high armor the bosses there have and it often dies even when managed well so i don't think its good for raid dps maybe for dungeons like BRD my pet could manage a 165-180 dps on a dummy with full investment in pet talents and attack power buffs so there are a few suggestions i would like to make:

1- make pet talents tierless like i could pick any talent i like without having to pick any talent in the previous tier (similar to how we use TEs) as there is some really good pet talents unobtainable due to that.

2- i can see that Beast Mastery Talent Tool-tip here states that it also increases pet damage by 15% but this part doesn't work it would be cool to fix that.

3- allow pets to also scale from melee attack power like for example if currently pets inherit 30% of masters Ranged attack power then it should now inherit 15% from melee + 15% from ranged attack power or the formula should always pick whatever is higher to inherit pet's attack power from. so melee builds can consider pets too.

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Guest Jacob

Thanks for you feedback Citizen. Wish I had a recount log for that run on hand but I'm abroad with crap internet. :(

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Hi everyone,

I must say I cant stand the way Hunter pet talents are at the moment. With only 4 talents you may obtain a hunter pet is pretty useless compared to a demon pet for example. There are some talents that realy make it worth to get a hunter pet like mana regen or taunt for grinding. Also the missing self heal will make the pet management even harder in raids as they dont benefit from the 90% aoe damage decrease so far like in wotlk. Please bring back all the talents or there will be some unique playstyles that wont be available anymore.

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Guest Jacob
On 04/19/2017 at 4:33 PM, Huntank said:

Hi everyone,

I must say I cant stand the way Hunter pet talents are at the moment. With only 4 talents you may obtain a hunter pet is pretty useless compared to a demon pet for example. There are some talents that realy make it worth to get a hunter pet like mana regen or taunt for grinding. Also the missing self heal will make the pet management even harder in raids as they dont benefit from the 90% aoe damage decrease so far like in wotlk. Please bring back all the talents or there will be some unique playstyles that wont be available anymore.

A bit unspecific. What four talents and what missing self heal? I'm fairly certain you have access to more heals than any other hunter ever had!

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Ah sry for the misunderstanding I was just talking about PET talents. Father already answered my request ingame it seems to be a bug that you may only obtain talents of the first tier in your pet talent tree. Thx for the awnser cheers

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I have tried to build my character as a pure summoner. With Demons, Beasts and hopfully undead in the future, doing all the dirty work for me. It sounded cool in my head, however I was quickly disappointed once I reached level 10 and found out that I can´t have both my Imp and Beast of choise out at the same time. Plus when I had tamed a Beast and summoned my Imp that Beast vanished never to be heard from agen, no matter how many times I called.

Also shouldent Drain Souls belong on the demonology page, since you need soul shards to summon more powerfull demons?

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Guest Jacob

I'm afraid you'll be stuck with a singular pet for now Vontel, you can make that one pet pretty strong though!! :)

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Whilst it may be slightly off topic, would it even be possible down the line to have multiple permanent pets @Jacob? I've no clue for coding of any sort, but I'd have thought that the singular pet rule would be pretty deep rooted and hard to tamper with?

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Guest Jacob

@Sely

Possibly, it would require alot of work and the UI doesn't support it either. 

It would be alot further down the road if ever I'm afraid.. :(

Edited by Jacob

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Yeah, the lack of UI support would be a pita.

Fair enough, figured as much but thought I'd ask anyway seeing as you didn't immediately dismiss it. =P

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The pet talents need buffs, also they take too much aoe damage.  As for bundling the abilities I think tame beast/revive pet should come together then dismiss pet/call pet. Maybe the pet being a big investment is good thing though, if the pet felt mandatory that would not be good. 

 

Also I think you should reconsider Kill command/arcane blast/incinerate, I know those spells did not exist in Vanilla but neither did the wrath talent trees. Elemental is okay without lava burst ,but Bm/arcane/destro lacking their primary spell is pretty bad especially since the talent tree syringes around those spells. 

 

Edited by HouseSpider

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If some of the abilities were bundled, talents were buffed a bit, a passive safe reduction to aoe damage for the  a pet, and I would like to see them scale off str and int so a caster could make use of a pet and so a melee build could make use of a pet, because what's the benefit of having classless heros if you are forced into one stat choice in order to have a pet? All that and I feel a lot of issues with pets would be solved, or at least going in the right direction.

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I agree with the first bit, but I think they already scale from strength(since strength gives attack power), but intellect scaling is for warlock pets. 

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On 5/23/2017 at 4:09 PM, Arkoniel said:

Beasts scale from ranged attack power and demons from spell power.

Which only is obtained by agility. I know demons scale from spell power, I want Hunter pets to be able to scale off all 3 stats so any style of play can have a pet not just agility play. (Not speaking to you in per say, just using ur post as a base).

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IMHO hunter pets are useless compared to the warlocks pets because

1. You have to feed them (Ugh)

2. In order to have a pet and maintain them, you need 6 skill points, compared to a 4 skill points for warlock pets.

3. You have to level them

4. There are simply better things to put your points into.

You could likely fix this by bundling the whole pet abilities into a package / reducing the cost to the cheaper alternative, or by buffing the pets.

 

In short, your better off going with a lock pet.

 

EDIT:

Obviously if you plan on playing as a beast master, and want to put points into that tree. It's completely viable for you to have a hunter pet, this post is for all the people who wanted a pet but don't want to put points into beast mastery. If you read Mindw0rk's post below, you can respec once you tame your pet and get one for only 1AE and 1TE. (However it seems a little cheatsy, and should probably be removed / reworked.)

 

Edited by Frozenfox360
Clarification

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I agree. But I also think that warlock pets should be nerfed since they are pretty OP and Im fine with the feeding and leveling your pet thing because it adds to the fantasy of having a animal companion. You could make it so that your pet gains a wee bit of exp everytime you feed it.

I havent seen the icon that shows if your pet is happy or not but if that pet happyness thing is still there I am completly for removing it. Having to have food in your bag to keep your pets damage up is bull. 

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4 hours ago, Frozenfox360 said:

IMHO hunter pets are useless compared to the warlocks pets because

1. You have to feed them (Ugh)

2. In order to have a pet and maintain them, you need 6 skill points, compared to a 4 skill points for warlock pets.

3. You have to level them

4. There are simply better things to put your points into.

You could likely fix this by bundling the whole pet abilities into a package / reducing the cost to the cheaper alternative, or by buffing the pets.

 

In short, your better off going with a lock pet.

 

You're wrong on pretty much every point.

1. Pets have talents and one of their talents increases his happeness. Be it from doing dmg, or eating corpses. After taking it, you dont really need to feed pet anymore.

2. You actually need only revive that costs just 1 skill point. After taming pet you can respec, and remove tame ability. You dont need call ability since revive does that. You dont need feed ability since look #1. So its 1 point against warlock's 4 points.

3. They level almost instantly to hunters level even if you tamed much lower level pet.

4. My pet does like 20% of my dps (and I have very high dps for my level). Show me "a better thing" that permanently increases your dmg by 20% for 1 skill point.

 

You can make hunter pet to deal MUCH more dmg then warlocks pet through beastmaster talents. Now this will be a big investment, but your pet will become a monster, especially if you tame T-rex and get all the pet dmg talents and REs.

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11 hours ago, mindw0rk said:

You're wrong on pretty much every point.

1. Pets have talents and one of their talents increases his happeness. Be it from doing dmg, or eating corpses. After taking it, you dont really need to feed pet anymore.

2. You actually need only revive that costs just 1 skill point. After taming pet you can respec, and remove tame ability. You dont need call ability since revive does that. You dont need feed ability since look #1. So its 1 point against warlock's 4 points.

3. They level almost instantly to hunters level even if you tamed much lower level pet.

4. My pet does like 20% of my dps (and I have very high dps for my level). Show me "a better thing" that permanently increases your dmg by 20% for 1 skill point.

 

You can make hunter pet to deal MUCH more dmg then warlocks pet through beastmaster talents. Now this will be a big investment, but your pet will become a monster, especially if you tame T-rex and get all the pet dmg talents and REs.

You would have to take a talent in order to get the happiness from doing damage / eating corpses. making it be 1AE (If you use the whole respec idea, which i think is a little cheatsy.) and 1TE VS Warlock's 4AE (For Drain Soul, and pet). Also your 4th point is not relevant because you (could have / not have) put points into increasing the damage of your pet. Also it would be helpful information to know if your level. Of course hunter pets will be better for those who wish to pursue a beast mastery style of gameplay, my post was towards people who wanted a pet and were not playing a beast master style.

 

EDIT:

It seems to me, re-reading your post that you miss-interpreted my statement. Which is my fault, I apologize for the lack of clarification, and will edit the post.

Edited by Frozenfox360
clarification

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You dont need to take talent from character since hunter pets (unlike warlock pets) have their separate talents that are free and you gain them every 4 levels. 

I didnt misinterpreted anything, I just corrected your mistakes.

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