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[Unpopular] Reduce Amount of ability essence gained

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For me it is really cool to keep a theme for a "custom class". With so much ability essences gained, you will always take some abilities because they are always good and/unique. Let's says I'm playing a Holy Spell-caster, then there are a few abilities I imagining myself to take for me to build my class, but with all the other essences I end up spending them on "good to have" abilities. These have nothing to do with my class, I just use them because they are nice, let's say Entangling Root because its great to have a root eh? And so on.

Don't get me wrong, I love how it is now. But to make more distinct classes, a reduction in ability points gained might be needed.

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Im afrayed im gona so disagree with you....1st of all the essences are gain  per lvl so there is the feeling of progres 2nt You coold argue that we only need a action bar Diablo 3 like with 3 essencial skills.Unfortunatly that woold be boring and the game woold not be fun woold it?!?! Just spam 5 spell that are essencial do dmg or ubsorve or heal and GG...WoW is an mmo RPG!!! For thouse that have forgoten what an rpg is do visite a game like neverwinter or guther some friyends and playe D&D or vampire or even triye D&D online!! 3rd Its nice to have options and more options(even if they are situational) means more freedome,we do wont to have freedome right?? And lastly 4th Greed is good and it be fun to have all spells all talens and be as OP as One Punch Man.well the road to ther woold have to be hard but becoming OP is such a fun(100 push-up 100 shit-up 100 squats 100km runing with no air-conditioning every day)!!!

Well that how i see the point into this eny way....and althow i like dungeons and be with friyend raiding im alwayes dreaming going in there and after an intense stare contest with the end boss exchanging blows till he drops his pants(and my loot)!!

 

PS: Rly sry for eny inconvinience  my terible spelling cose to you :)

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I'm not entirely getting what you're going at here, at this point we don't even have enough ability essences to build some of the retail classes, try fleshing out a druid without picking up anything that costs ability essences in your talent tree, you'll end up about 32 points short. If anything, some of these abilities need to be packaged and discounted like the hunter pet bulk is. 

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1 hour ago, Raz said:

I'm not entirely getting what you're going at here, at this point we don't even have enough ability essences to build some of the retail classes, try fleshing out a druid without picking up anything that costs ability essences in your talent tree, you'll end up about 32 points short. If anything, some of these abilities need to be packaged and discounted like the hunter pet bulk is. 

and shaman totems, pala buffs etc. 

it's not even remotely possible to pick all the pala buffs as a healer or even half of the usefull totems, you need to spread them out on a raid, wich is inself abit dmging to 10-man raiding compared to 25 man since you got more players to spread them out on in a 25 man raid.

So if you want to play a specifik type of class/healer you're not even able to build that with the ability essences available. So NO there's no good reasoning to lower it further.

Edited by Natusan

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I actually agree that offering less AB would create more diversity. BUT, I don't think it's as simple as reducing AB across the board. I think they should separate utility spells like create food, portal, ect into a separate essence, and then really look at spell costs. Some spells are just so good it's silly not to take it. By offering so many choices we are actually getting less diversity in those choices. If you are melee there is no decision between TG or another spell. There are no trade-offs and decisions. Players fall into a few small roles with minimal diversity because we all pick the same core spells/talents. 

If they revamped the system to encourage us to make more meaningful choices between spells I think we would see a lot of unique classes, but right now retail has more build diversity than most end-game specs here.

There are definitely ways to implement something like this. They could do weighted AB costs, separate spells into various essences (buff, cc, spell, ect) but still allow you to spend spell essence on a melee spell, it just cost more of them. It would require a massive investment from the design team to implement properly but I could see it really improving the end-game of the server and us seeing dozens of viable builds versus a few.

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I do not agree with you, reduction its not the Key here. Like I said before:

For me the solution would be leaving the points as they are, but making only 1 type of Essence, so you could put point wherever you feel needed, So you need more ablities and less talents: go for it, wanna press less buttons or dont wanna take any other skill: dump your extra points in talents for extra pasive power in your build. Easy solution, that anyone would love, also noob friendly. Cheers!

Edited by Chronosk

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On 1/9/2018 at 1:33 AM, Chronosk said:

I do not agree with you, reduction its not the Key here. Like I said before:

For me the solution would be leaving the points as they are, but making only 1 type of Essence, so you could put point wherever you feel needed, So you need more ablities and less talents: go for it, wanna press less buttons or dont wanna take any other skill: dump your extra points in talents for extra pasive power in your build. Easy solution, that anyone would love, also noob friendly. Cheers!

Thats verry interesting... To be able to swap talents and spell/abilitys with one universal Essence tipe. I can see the problem of people going 2 spells 2  milion talents(like all the % crit passive ect), But admititly your idia is intriguing!!! Here i woold have to say thou that i woold not like to see somethink like D3 or Mulegend were you have a hot bar of 5 skills and thats it.... Personaly,as  i have stated in a prevews coment,i do like divercity in builds! Fore me its nice to see a warior base build with curses, or a mage with cleave for personal maters :)  So,in  case my coment above made some confusion, i woold like to see more ability points, also i think, in my humble opinion, that all abillitys soold cost 1 essence and maybe some of them like resistance auras,food/water,manna gems and some of the hunter aspects(maybe bufs as well) soold be groupt up like bmannion4 sujested earlyer! Lastly id like to point that althou this sujestions might be good and fine, we have to consider what the devs wont and what/how the ones that imagind this server wont to do. We participate in there worldand they triye to sape it so that they can tell the same story under a new light,at lest thats how i see it :) 

Edited by warrhammerr
typo

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On 1/8/2018 at 3:33 PM, Chronosk said:

I do not agree with you, reduction its not the Key here. Like I said before:

For me the solution would be leaving the points as they are, but making only 1 type of Essence, so you could put point wherever you feel needed, So you need more ablities and less talents: go for it, wanna press less buttons or dont wanna take any other skill: dump your extra points in talents for extra pasive power in your build. Easy solution, that anyone would love, also noob friendly. Cheers!

That won't work :(

We would see specs solely based around one spell full of talents boosting said spell. Or melee builds with ONE ability and full dmg/survival talents. Honestly, I think we would see more interesting builds if we made people pick between 3-4 trees, with the first two your "main" where you can buy abilities/talents for 2 essence and the second 2 your "secondary" where each ability/talent costs an extra essence. I don't think that's really in the spirit of the server or the theme of classless though. Maybe a weighted system or creating natural debuffs/caps would be better. EX: If you pick TG all of your defensive spells/talents have a reduced effectiveness, or you can't benefit from movement increasing effects during combat outside of charges.

Either way, I would like to see them make some more checks and balances. As counter-intuitive as it may seem, restrictions and what we "can't do" is often more interesting and leads to more unique choices than what we can do or an entirely open system. It doesn't mean we should lock any spells from being chosen together, but some of the build defining spells or completely crazy strong spells like TG should be a meaningful choice instead of a no-brainer choice.

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On 10/1/2018 at 3:03 PM, bmannion4 said:

That won't work :(

We would see specs solely based around one spell full of talents boosting said spell. Or melee builds with ONE ability and full dmg/survival talents. Honestly, I think we would see more interesting builds if we made people pick between 3-4 trees, with the first two your "main" where you can buy abilities/talents for 2 essence and the second 2 your "secondary" where each ability/talent costs an extra essence. I don't think that's really in the spirit of the server or the theme of classless though. Maybe a weighted system or creating natural debuffs/caps would be better. EX: If you pick TG all of your defensive spells/talents have a reduced effectiveness, or you can't benefit from movement increasing effects during combat outside of charges.

Either way, I would like to see them make some more checks and balances. As counter-intuitive as it may seem, restrictions and what we "can't do" is often more interesting and leads to more unique choices than what we can do or an entirely open system. It doesn't mean we should lock any spells from being chosen together, but some of the build defining spells or completely crazy strong spells like TG should be a meaningful choice instead of a no-brainer choice.

Again I dont agree. Why always the choice is Nerfs and restrictions? That enterily kill the FREEDOM and the FUN. For example yesterday some guild mates and I where given tips about a tank build to a fresh lvl 60 and after pointing to him all "choose this cause this dont work", "or this spell is mandatory" He said: "Im now unmotivate, its no longer fun". So my point: Freedom should be the key here, if we wanted restriction we went to play retail version of the game. Ascension is Fun cause it destroy classic rigidity and bring a new world of posibility. Like your Example "Titan Grip" in the only build that is no brainer is in healing, cause the huge nerf it has sufered, some dps builds use it, but to be honest its not even that usefull, I have seen people doing insane damage with 2 one handed weapons, and no one have ever has say: "nerf one handed please". So my opinion is: Dont nerf spell and talents, give only one essence type and let the people decide was its better for their builds. Ascencion will nerver be true balanced due the infinite amount of conbinations posible, but when "balance" has been fun? We play wow to make an OP character full geared to the theet, with the most optimized talents and REs posibles for our build and thats a fact. Most people would agree with me that nerfing its not the answer, and if you think you are OP right now: please go and try ZG Spider boss and Hakkar and please post a video of your results. Cheers!

Edited by Chronosk
typo

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5 hours ago, Chronosk said:

Again I dont agree. Why always the choice is Nerfs and restrictions? That enterily kill the FREEDOM and the FUN. For example yesterday some guild mates and I where given tips about a tank build to a fresh lvl 60 and after pointing to him all "choose this cause this dont work", "or this spell is mandatory" He said: "Im now unmotivate, its no longer fun". So my point: Freedom should be the key here, if we wanted restriction we went to play retail version of the game. Ascension is Fun cause it destroy classic rigidity and bring a new world of posibility. Like your Example "Titan Grip" in the only build that is no brainer is in healing, cause the huge nerf it has sufered, some dps builds use it, but to be honest its not even that usefull, I have seen people doing insane damage with 2 one handed weapons, and no one have ever has say: "nerf one handed please". So my opinion is: Dont nerf spell and talents, give only one essence type and let the people decide was its better for their builds. Ascencion will nerver be true balanced due the infinite amount of conbinations posible, but when "balance" has been fun? We play wow to make an OP character full geared to the theet, with the most optimized talents and REs posibles for our build and thats a fact. Most people would agree with me that nerfing its not the answer, and if you think you are OP right now: please go and try ZG Sipder boss and Hakkar and please post a video of your results. Cheers!

Valid points. I guess it's not so much nerfs I'm calling for as more meaningful choices. Restrictions create more meaningful choices, and we don't have to put in limits, but if we add in some checks and balances or put in some soft caps on raw +stat talents people could pick more interesting talents. Right now we are encouraged to maximize +dmg, +sp, +crit, or whatever our build relies on instead of talents that make us more unique. I would be very open to seeing some of those talents replaced or re-tuned, or given a check and balance. If you spec into a +5% damage talent it should reduce your armor gained from items by 5%. Or put a cap on how much you can gain from talents alone, like +10% cap on increases from talents. I think we would see more build diversity and less one shot builds.

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Again One shot builds, PvP... You know one shot is more like good gear and good RE than talents. Ai hinself has say this many times, He got awesome gear and The most optimized Res for his build so yeah, One Shots and 2 or 3 shots gonna happen, a lot, against poor geared players, I got a few guild mates tha He ignores in BGs cause takes forever for him to kill them, so he pray on the weak and the glass cannons builds, a lot of build are glass cannons so the One shots are kind of common for then. But think in PvE if we continue to nerf Talents and Spells and bosses get pumped up with new mechanics and unfixed bugs: PvE Its gonna be a nightmare especially for fresh lvl60 and new players, I play in Andorhal, do a few Bgs and PvP but my main interest is PvE so I dont like nerfs. If Nerfs are for PvP do then in Sargeras, not Andorhal. Cheers!

Edited by Chronosk
typo

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Some of the ability cost is fucking ridiculous. 3/1 for an end tier, 2/1 for some abilities and some talents are 1/1. Some of the staple abilities for some classes cost 2 ability points, IE Pick lock. It's hard to build a singular class. But I'm assuming they'll either redo it or they plan to release BC sooner cause I agree, there IS a point shortage.

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