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itswicky

Tooltips and You

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How's it going Heroes? I'm here today to ask you guys to share with us how you think we can make our classless tooltips more clear to new and existing players.

I've been getting some great examples so far E.g. clarifying that Predatory Strikes works only for Feral Druid finishers and not Rogue finishers. We would love to hear what you guys have to say on the matter, so please share!

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This might not be directed towards new players... but make a key players can follow. EX: You can have a spell/talent have a code on the bottom if it's something that interacts with other elements in a stackable or non-stackable way. For example... if something provides move speed but doesn't stack with other effects, and movespeed is the 3rd character in the key, you would have something like 00Y0000 on it. Or create a web page showing all the keys so we know what effects stack, impact others, ect. If something is usable in cat or bear, you might have a CB00000, or 0B0000 for a talent that only impacts Bear.

For something directed towards new players... 2 things.

When you open the skill book have it default to a page that has ALL level 1-10(or 20) spells in it.

Focus on clarifying those skills as much as possible, and color code text by class if a talent ONLY influences something specific to that talent. For example... Fire Mage talents that boost MAGE spells should be color coded to mages. Something that does a flat int % should be left in a general color.

Things that confuse new players just with something like battle stance... Can I use cat and battle stance? Does Battle stance work with ranged. Do I need battle stance to use warrior spells?

All of that should be explicit, and I think designing a clear system with a code or color based could give a lot of clarity where even seasoned players are unclear. 

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Improve the tooltips details like: Works only with this abilities/talents, or works only on melee/ranged/spell, Dont stack with this abilities/talents (full or partially). Also detailed ability scale stats (SP, Melee AP or Ranged AP) like: ex @Ability scales with 25% Melee AP and 75% SP. All Weapons Procs and Enchant (Shaman/Enchanter/Ramdon/Weapon especific) If they can Proc on melee/ranged/spell or while shapeshifted. I know its a lot, but sadly most of the players need to ask to other players in the World Chat a lot of this things while they adjust their builds cause there is to little information about it. Well thank you very much Devs, and keep the good work!  

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2 hours ago, Chronosk said:

Improve the tooltips details like: Works only with this abilities/talents, or works only on melee/ranged/spell, Dont stack with this abilities/talents (full or partially). Also detailed ability scale stats (SP, Melee AP or Ranged AP) like: ex @Ability scales with 25% Melee AP and 75% SP. All Weapons Procs and Enchant (Shaman/Enchanter/Ramdon/Weapon especific) If they can Proc on melee/ranged/spell or while shapeshifted. I know its a lot, but sadly most of the players need to ask to other players in the World Chat a lot of this things while they adjust their builds cause there is to little information about it. Well thank you very much Devs, and keep the good work!  

Exactly. I actually think they would greatly benefit by focusing on just the level 1-20 tool tips and making them as new player friendly as possible, then creating a detailed wiki for spells and talents at 20+ as things grow more complicated.

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Fellas we're more or less looking for specific descriptions or tooltips that are unclear, that we can clean up before that update. That is the scope haha :D

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22 hours ago, Verydad said:

Fellas we're more or less looking for specific descriptions or tooltips that are unclear, that we can clean up before that update. That is the scope haha :D

Here ya go :)

1. Tell new players WHERE the character advancement button is or let them know it can be opened with N.

2. Explain Ability Essence and that they can see how much they have in their currency tab. It isn't clear how many ABs you have to play around with as a new player as the tooltip blocks the counter in the character advancement tab.

3. Let us know we can respec at no charge until level __ so people don't panic if they mess

up before they've even killed something.

4. Point out the book of ascension in the tool tips. Can you add a quest to it?

5. Most importantly, the tooltips can be overwhelming for someone just logging in when we get to picking our first ability. We are presented with an overload of information. Can we put all the spells available at level 1 into one page and direct them to that page from the tooltip? Maybe split it into columns for melee, spells, pets, buffs, heals, cc? I think they would REALLY help new players get excited for the possibilities instead of feeling overwhelmed by the possibilities. Then let them know that they can find additional spells as they reach an appropriate level in the corresponding tabs?

 

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@Verydad @itswicky

Following tooltips needs to be changed.

I found most of these on @LYFE's spreadsheet, so credit to him.

Overkill (Rogue talent, Assassination) - Does NOT work with Prowl (Druid spell, Feral). If this is intended, the tooltip should state it.

Two-Handed Weapon Spec. (Paladin talent, Retribution) - Has a tooltip error. See pictures.
xkH6VnR.png

When there's no point put into the talent, it looks like this could work with staves. However when points are put into it, it clearly states it doesn't work with staves.

Tooltips for the following talents/spells should state that they do NOT stack:

Moonkin Aura (Druid talent/spell, Balance) - Does NOT stack with Elemental Oath (Shaman talent, Elemental).
Elemental Oath (Shaman talent, Elemental) - Does NOT stack with Moonkin Aura (Druid talent/spell, Balance).

Leader of the Pack (Druid talent, Feral) - Does NOT stack with Rampage (Warrior talent, Fury).
Rampage (Warrior talent, Fury) - Does NOT stack with Leader of the Pack (Druid talent, Feral).

Trueshot Aura (Hunter talent, Marksmanship) - Does NOT stack with Unleashed Rage (Shaman talent, Enhancement).
Unleashed Rage (Shaman talent, Enhancement) - Does NOT stack with Trueshot Aura (Hunter talent, Marksmanship).

Fel Intelligence (Warlock Pet effect, Felhunter) - Does NOT stack with Arcane Intellect (Mage spell, Arcane) nor Divine Spirit (Priest spell, Discipline).
Arcane Intellect (Mage spell, Arcane) - Does NOT stack with Fel Intelligence (Warlock Pet effect, Felhunter).
Divine Spirit (Priest spell, Discipline) - Does NOT stack with Fel Intelligence (Warlock Pet effect, Felhunter).

Power Infusion (Priest talent/spell, Discipline) - Does NOT stack with Icy Veins (Mage talent/spell, Frost).
Icy Veins (Mage talent/spell, Frost) - Does NOT stack with Power Infusion (Priest talent/spell, Discipline).
These two spells cancels one another. Not sure if this is intended but if it is, the tooltip should state it.

Vindication (Paladin talent, Retribution) - Does NOT stack with Demoralizing Shout (Warrior spell, Fury) nor Demoralizing Roar (Druid spell, Feral).
Demoralizing Shout (Warrior spell, Fury) - Does NOT stack with Vindication (Paladin talent, Retribution) nor Demoralizing Roar (Druid spell, Feral).
Demoralizing Roar (Druid spell, Feral) - Does NOT stack with Vindication (Paladin talent, Retribution) nor Demoralizing Shout (Warrior spell, Fury).

Demonic Pact (Warlock talent, Demonology) - Does NOT stack with Totem of Wrath (Shaman talent/spell, Elemental).
Totem of Wrath (Shaman talent/spell, Elemental) - Does NOT stack with Demonic Pact (Warlock talent, Demonology).
*This is according to Lyfe's spreadsheet. I haven't tested it myself.

Deathwish (Warrior talent/spell, Fury) - Does NOT stack with Wrecking Crew (Warrior talent, Arms).
Wrecking Crew (Warrior talent, Arms) - Does NOT stack with Deathwish (Warrior talent/spell, Fury).
*This is according to Lyfe's spreadsheet. I haven't tested it myself.

Savage Combat (Rogue talent, Combat) - Does NOT stack with Blood Frenzy (Warrior talent, Arms).
Blood Frenzy (Warrior talent, Arms) - Does NOT stack with Savage Combat (Rogue talent, Combat).

*This is according to Lyfe's spreadsheet. I haven't tested it myself.

Tooltips for the following spells should state that they share CD:

Growl (Druid spell, Feral) - Shares a cooldown with Taunt (Warrior spell, Protection) and Hand of Reckoning (Paladin spell, Protection).
Taunt (Warrior spell, Protection) - Shares a cooldown with Growl (Druid spell, Feral) and Hand of Reckoning (Paladin spell, Protection).
Hand of Reckoning (Paladin spell, Protection) - Shares a cooldown with Growl (Druid spell, Feral) and Taunt (Warrior spell, Protection).

Fire Nova (Shaman spell, Elemental) - Shares a cooldown with Frost Nova (Mage spell, Frost).
Frost Nova (Mage spell, Frost) - Shares a cooldown with Fire Nova (Shaman spell, Elemental).

Holy Shock (Paladin talent/spell, Holy) - Shares a cooldown with Flame-, Frost- and Earth Shock (Shaman spell, Elemental).
Earth Shock (Shaman spell, Elemental) - Shares a cooldown with Holy Shock (Paladin talent/spell, Holy) and other Shaman Shock spells.

Flame Shock and Frost Shock tooltips state that they share cooldown with other shock spells, but only when the spell is picked. Same issue as for the Two-Handed Weapon Spec. above.

Tooltips for the following talents/spells should state that they can't be used together:

Pressence of Mind (Mage talent/spell, Arcane) - Can't be used together with Elemental Mastery (Shaman talent/spell, Elemental), Nature's Swiftness (Shaman talent/spell, Restoration) nor Natural Alacrity (Druid talent/spell, Restoration).
Elemental Mastery (Shaman talent/spell, Elemental) - Can't be used together with Pressence of Mind (Mage talent/spell, Arcane), Nature's Swiftness (Shaman talent/spell, Restoration) nor Natural Alacrity (Druid talent/spell, Restoration).
Nature's Swiftness (Shaman talent/spell, Restoration) - Can't be used together with 
Pressence of Mind (Mage talent/spell, Arcane), Elemental Mastery (Shaman talent/spell, Elemental), nor Natural Alacrity (Druid talent/spell, Restoration).
Natural Alacrity (Druid talent/spell, Restoration) - Can't be used together with 
Pressence of Mind (Mage talent/spell, Arcane), Elemental Mastery (Shaman talent/spell, Elemental), nor Nature's Swiftness (Shaman talent/spell, Restoration).
Only one of this type of spell can be active at a time. These spells also shares a cooldown.

Cold Blood (Rogue talent/spell, Assassination) - Can't be used together with Inner Focus (Priest talent/spell, Discipline).
Inner Focus (Priest talent/spell, Discipline) - Can't be used together with Cold Blood (Rogue talent/spell, Assassination).

Edited by AG007

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Moonkin form does not stack with defensive stance

 i know it says "only 1 bar changing spell can be active"
 but I see new players asking about this every day
 
 like stance+druid forms in general

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Yeah, in response to @AG007sAG007s post, there are many raid buffs/debuffs that don't stack that I'm not sure if they should be included or not.  

Anyone who has played WoTLK before knows that rampage and leader of the pack don't stack, but it's almost a 10 year old expansion, so maybe people would think they do?

 

Here's a full list of which buffs/rebuffs don't stack.  https://wow.gamepedia.com/index.php?title=Buff&oldid=2289875#Buffs.2C_debuffs.2C_and_raid_stacking_in_WotLK

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30 minutes ago, Skray said:

Anyone who has played WoTLK before knows that rampage and leader of the pack don't stack

Yes, however the thing is on a blizz-like server this would be pretty obvious to anyone as it would be really overpowered otherwise. But these things aren't so obvious when it comes to a classless server where one can pick any spell/talent they like and where most things stack already. Therefore I personally think it is very important that each and every spell and talent has their tooltips updated - for the sake of new players. Because let me tell you, there's nothing as disappointing as spending hours theorycrafting a build only to realize it doesn't work because of missing information on tooltips or tooltip errors.

Edited by AG007

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@AG007
My spreadsheet is actually extremely out dated at the moment, theres been alot of improvements and bug fixes which I havnt had the time to update the sheet, my apologizes lol



Edit:
Everything you listed for "Do not stack" is true, whether its intended or not. I've also have more talents/abilities that do not stack which arnt listed, ill try to add them later on as one big update to the sheet

such as..
Improved Defensive Stance (Prot warrrior ) Damage Buff
Enrage (fury)
Deathwish (fury)
Wrecking Crew (Arms

all four of those dont stack

 

Since PTR is available, guess I can try to update that spreadsheet, thanks for the reminder 
 

Edited by LYFE

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Hello, i just wanted to share my thoughts about the servers (These are my thoughts  and you dontt have to agree. but would like too see what ppl think). Iv been playing on all servers and i really love the classless ideas, its awesome. However i goot some thoughts. First i wanted to talk about the dungons. I myself like it hard. Thats why i started here cuz it was vanilla and vanilla was abit hard, but you need to look at your screen while playing. I love grouping up with 4 others and clear stuffs out. I dont want them to be nerfed. I acculy want them abit harder. I usully play healer and i really dont have a problem at all healing. Also seen some people soloing dungons and that is something i dont think should be possible. Dungons should requier a group to finish. The self healing on bouth dps and tanks (riptide ftw right?) feels 2 high. WHen i play a healer i wanna be the one healing, and mosttime the tank can heal up himself. Same with raids. I dont feel nerfs are required. SInce even on Doomhammer (that launged like 2 weeks ago) have alrdy cleared MQ. abit fast for my taste. 

Second i wanna talk about the talants. What drove me most to the server was the abillity to creat my own character and mix it up as i wanted. Today thats not totaly possible. Iv tried out some builds like a fire game that used talants from bouth warlocks and mage tree (cuz it says increase fire dmg and not just the fire mage dmg) to use Chaos bolt. Sadly that did not increase the dmg of it. It only increased the dmg on my fire mage spells. That i want changed is so that yo can benefit from different trees even if it is a mage spell etc. I understand that this can make some builds like a fire mage abit overpowered but then i can see a nerf in the dmg base on the spell before we start to specc. Just to make it more fun to build in the trees. Im also open to more stat points. 

Also i could se an outbuild of catform where you can use more spells in forms that just whats alrdy builds into it. Like to be able to use Rapture from the rogue class in catform would make more operitunity to make a dotclass that really works. Just one idea and im sure there are planty more. Also if all spells that can be used in a form like catform or healing spells that work for tree of life, that u can read that on the tooltip. (a bleeding dot class ofc)

Now i feel like casters are bound to their own spells and specc. Fire mage will specc in their own fire tree mostly or even use all points there. 

If you could implament a insta lvl 60 test server where you can try out your specc and see how the dmg is so we can try if a specc work and not have to waste respeccs if they fail when we finally lvl our chars to 60

What are your thoughts? Do you have any ideas for what kind of specc or build you would like to see?

Also im sorry for my spellsing and gramma :D hope you can deal with it. 

Cheers! // Xoria

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It would be realy nice to see rank of RE, like <name of RE>[Rank/Max Rank], some of the RE doesn't have more ranks like Nightfall so you know you don't have to look for better one.

 

 

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1.) It seems the tooltips need to "word Wrapped" or something. If I hit shift to compare items, or use an addon such as EquipCompare or MoncaiCompare, the RE runs the tooltip off of the window or overlaps the equipped item's tooltip.

2.) I like the idea by AG007 to inform of the "does not stack."

3.) Replace all of the specific classes mentioned on the tooltip to say "Hero" instead.

4.) Also, all of the main stats on gear is doubled in the tooltip when viewed in the guild bank, which is untrue. It, correctly shows the stats when viewed in bags or inventory (and they ARE NOT doubled.)

Edited by skidaddles1

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The Gui for the spell/talent tree needs to be reworked. It's super unintuitive and took me a hell of a long time to figure out where to click to open either the spell or talent section. 

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Agree with Oddwin. Left side/right side is really weird and could be replaced with a big "skill" and "talents" icon instead to be more intuitive

 

edit: I think everything relating to shapeshifting is quite unclear. The tooltip for moonkin doesn't even state that you can still cast spells without shifting out -- but you can. Does it apply to all spells ? Can you use melee skills ? Lots of lack of clarity around it and the lack of the ability to "try this spell out for 15 minutes" pushes away people from creative builds.

Edited by steakhouse

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Tooltips... I think they need rework from ground up, they need a new "window" type thing.

1)First of all there is no need to put Abilities and Talents in different places!
2)Create one big "window" where all actives/passives will be put.
3)Then start categorizing. Put Stances next/close to each other. Put Holy abilities next to each other and most importantly give
DETAILED description of what they stack/work with and what not.

Im not a dev but what i understand is that you will need to re-visit every single active/passive, make sure how it works and give a proper description to it. Probably a very time consuming task but i dont see how else u are going to solve the whole tooltip thing in a quality manner.

This is an RPG and correct/detailed descriptions are crucial. Right now, traveling from "class" to "class" trying to choose skills is just overwhelming, especially for ppl new to wow.


 

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Any stance or form that changes the action bar needs to state this in the tooltip.

Tooltips need to be completely unambiguous. With respecs as expensive as they are, having to throw away all that gold because things don't interact in the way the tooltips suggest or because a talent that looked good is just awful. There should be no second guessing whether a talent will actually work for your build. They've certainly come a long way in this area since launch, but there is still work to be done.

For example, Shadow Focus:

Increases the chance to hit with your Shadow Spells by 1/2/3%, and reduces the mana cost of your Shadow spells by 2/4/6%.

Should read (assuming it's not class masked):

Increases the chance to hit with your Priest and Warlock Shadow Spells by 1/2/3%, and reduces the mana cost of your Priest and Warlock Shadow spells by 2/4/6%.

Definitely agree with AG007 - if anything won't stack with anything else, the tooltip needs to say so. I would go as far as to say that anything with an internal cooldown needs to say so in its tooltip as well.

I would love to see a complete set of notes on every spell and talent that's been changed in any way from its default 3.3.5a state. Whether that's a buff, a nerf, a change in procrate, a change to how it interacts with other spells or talents, etc.

One that I've noticed needs some love with its tooltip in particular is Metamorphosis. Casting it will take you out of Moonkin form (and possibly others, haven't tested) but the tooltip does not state this. In addition, casting any spell that's not a Warlock spell will remove you from Demon Form, again no hint of that from the tooltip.

Finally, talents that affect spell damage are confusing. For example, Master Shapeshifter increases your spell damage while in moonkin form by 2/4%. Is this a flat increase to all spell damage done, or does it increase your spell bonus damage? The tooltip offers no answer.

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I hope this thread isn't too old for it having some visibility from the dev's again. There are some RE tooltips that still need to be fixed !

You guys started well by adding colors to most RE's but as usual, the job hasn't been done completely !

It is very important that you complete this task since it can create a lot of confusion to newer players.

The RE's I have in mind are :

Bountiful Gift (shows of as green while being legendary)

Phase dodge (all ranks are listed as green)

Demonic Synergy : the lower tier is blue while the upper tier is green (this + the fact that both tooltips are wrong; stating 100% chance on the lower tier and 50% on the upper tier) edit : Lower tier is green (as should be) but states 100% chance while upper tier is blue and states 50% chance
 

There are some more unfortunatly, but I can't have the complete list of them (since I don't own all RE's).

It makes me very sad that once more the job has been half done, for a task that looks rather easy.
 

Edited by Machia

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I would like to add that there are some RE's that have the color tier mixed - p.e - Hallowed Light (rare) shows as an epic on gear. 

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Hello.
I have serious problem with skill descriptions. To begin with im new to wow, so i dont know beforehand how skills used to work in retail-like wow. Secondly, this server is custom, which means that anything could be modified. Now, my problem is. Im checking skills to make a build. And right now im checking Paladins skills and i dont know with what they scale. Like for example. How Seal Of Light scales? with AP? SP? and how much? also its not being mentioned if it triggers with auto attacks or skills (or both).

To conclude, you should provide as detailed skill descriptions as possible, especially considering the overwhelming amount of active and passive skills a player must check. And its even worse for ppl that arent familiar with wow.
You guys made a cool server but to make it actually FUN u need to provide as detailed descriptions for skills as possible. I know this might be time consuming for the devs but its really needed. plz.
One cant make a build by guessing or hoping that a skills does what he thinks.

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