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iwasapirate

Remove the melee auto-attack reset of spells

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So in my arduous journey to try out other melee hybrid builds besides Judgement-holy and Maelstrom, I have run into a bit of a problem that severely hinders the viability of any other spellsword builds.

This is the auto-attack (swing) reset that occurs when casting a spell - such as a dot, Fireblast or most other non Ret/Enhancement spells.

There is not really any reason for this to exist - imo this melee attack reset should be removed for most spells (excluding lifetap and a few other spells that melee should not be able to spam without consequence).

 

Implementing this would open up a massive variety of builds for melee spell hybrids.

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I completely agree with this. The only reason those spells reset the swing timer in wow was to prevent casters from going in melee and autoattacking with their weapons.

In a server such as Ascension, this point isn't important as technically every class is "intended" to be capable of becoming a melee-hybrid.

There is no reason for such a thing to stay as it is. It completely prevents hybrids/spellswords as well as melee healers from accessing most of the spells that should be available to them.

 

On a side note, I think this should be removed for all spells, not just a selected group. Lifetap not reseting the swing timer won't break it or anything considering melee DPS have far better ways to regain mana or sustain a mana-neutral rotation (improved stormstrike for example) without wasting GCD. It might also push the "melee healer" archetype unto a slightly better position (in addition to having most instant cast heals not reset the swing timer too).

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On 29/09/2017 at 8:09 PM, sabrio said:

On a side note, I think this should be removed for all spells, not just a selected group. Lifetap not reseting the swing timer won't break it or anything considering melee DPS have far better ways to regain mana or sustain a mana-neutral rotation (improved stormstrike for example) without wasting GCD. It might also push the "melee healer" archetype unto a slightly better position (in addition to having most instant cast heals not reset the swing timer too).

The reason lifetap, dispell magic, and some spells should probably keep the melee reset mechanic is spammability.  If lifetap is spammable for melee hybrids, then there is not much point investing into other talents to manage mana.  If dispell magic did not reset the attack timer, then hybrids could sit in melee doing damage while also offensively and defensively spamming dispells every gcd.

 

On another note, Maelstrom weapon is currently broken and resets the attack timer, making lightning bolt melee builds pretty useless.  I hope the developers can take a look at this.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the shadow warrior hybrid build is the most popular ascension build guide video (people love non-blizzlike and original builds), yet this reset mechanic really hurts the viability of the spec.

Edited by iwasapirate

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While we're in the hybrid builds topic,  can flametongue get some love? If you guys can make poisons works on bows, can flametongue also work in melee skills? Also idk if this is on the bugtracker yet, but max rank flametongue only works in a single weapon (offhand weapon doesn't get any spell damage bonus from any flametongue rank).

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On 10/19/2017 at 3:50 PM, iwasapirate said:

The reason lifetap, dispell magic, and some spells should probably keep the melee reset mechanic is spammability.  If lifetap is spammable for melee hybrids, then there is not much point investing into other talents to manage mana.  If dispell magic did not reset the attack timer, then hybrids could sit in melee doing damage while also offensively and defensively spamming dispells every gcd.

 

On another note, Maelstrom weapon is currently broken and resets the attack timer, making lightning bolt melee builds pretty useless.  I hope the developers can take a look at this.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the shadow warrior hybrid build is the most popular ascension build guide video (people love non-blizzlike and original builds), yet this reset mechanic really hurts the viability of the spec.

Necroing this thread because of what you said about Lifetap being "spammable".

It is not. It's still a 1.5s GCD that prevents you from using an ability, it's still a dps loss, but atleast I would love to being able to continue regaining mana and being able to still autoattack while dealing with all the crappy manaburn mechanics that punishes melees more than caster (Ragnaros' adds, the shadow priest in LBRS, azuregos manastorm etc). 

Melees also have a small manapool compared to casters, and this mostly punishes hybrid melees who are better off using their mana-consuming attacks / spells (instant cast spells cost A LOT too btw) rather than energy attacks like sinister strike (Rage attacks are okay but not spammable).

 

Also, shamans can purge and paladin can cleanse without interrupting swing timer. So it's already possible to do what you're saying.

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Is there any update on this? I believe this change is not that hard to do for the devs (only repetitive to change in a whole lot of places) but would make a lot more builds viable(mainly hybrids).

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On 11/1/2017 at 2:50 AM, MageKnight said:

While we're in the hybrid builds topic,  can flametongue get some love? If you guys can make poisons works on bows, can flametongue also work in melee skills? Also idk if this is on the bugtracker yet, but max rank flametongue only works in a single weapon (offhand weapon doesn't get any spell damage bonus from any flametongue rank).

 Flametongue does work with melee builds. Cats and fast DPS (like rouges with daggers) already see the procs often.

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3 hours ago, Billyww said:

 Flametongue does work with melee builds. Cats and fast DPS (like rouges with daggers) already see the procs often.

They only work in auto-attacks, i mean yellow hits

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 I know. I am just pointing out they they happen more often with faster attacks. It has always been a bit week but does work as intended.

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That’s why he’s asking for it to proc on melee skills not just attacks, an all honesty all the weapon imbues should run close to the same in terms of damage output, since basically everyone uses them in some form, they should perform around the same level 

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You do realize melee is already out of balance and this will just make it worse? A change like this will have huge unintended consequences. If you think TG WF one shot builds are bad now wait until they can do that while spamming frostshock without it resetting their swing timer.

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I thought shaman shocks didn’t reset the swing timers, same with some paladin abilities. I could be wrong though. And with the amount of damage you can front load with instant 2 weapon attacks like stormstrike whirlwind killing spree bladestorm I do t think they should care about frost shock. This is for hybrid spell builds not windfury burst builds.  

On an unrelated topic it’s sad this project is so pvp focused, pvp should be a rewarding and fun SIDE focus of a mmo with so many dungeons and raids to do. There isn’t a single pve server, and the amount of “x broken pvp build x x x x” reasons and complaints is ridiculous.

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yea i would like to see that handled as well tbh although probably not for every spell. Removing swing time reset would open up builds but also create a bit of brokenness for burst

Edited by Shiru

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Yeah, it’s kind of a kick in the teeth to the majority of possible build. You have basic melee basic caster, and in between there is room for a ton of customization in hybrids but it doesn’t pay off like it should

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