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Why the Horde dominates Alliance on all four realms and what the Ascension team can do to fix it.

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Posted (edited)

Hi there,

This post is dedicated to outlining to, as the title says, outlining why the Horde dominates Alliance on all four realms on Ascension, causing free faction transfers to be needed and what the Ascension team can do to fix it.

 

Firstly, World Buffs. To put it simply, Horde have access to an extremely powerful, easily obtainable and repeatable world buff that Alliance do not have access to. Warchief's Blessing. This grants a whopping 15% melee haste, as well as a small amount of MP5 and a health boost.

In order to balance this, I suggest adding a way for Alliance (and Outlaws, maybe in Booty Bay?) to recieve Warchief's Blessing (renamed, if you like (Outlaw's Blessing / Highlord's Blessing)). This issue is a relatively simple fix (the Alliance repeatable quest is to kill Drakkisath, instead of rend, so this quest could be made to award the buff Q-ID: 5102)

 

Secondly, racials. This issue is a harder one to fix, but does have multiple solutions. To put it bluntly, the power of Horde racials is vastly greater than the available Alliance racials. Orc racials for damage dealers are insane, with a racial related to Axes (some of the most powerful weapons currently), a racial related to pet damage and their active racial, granting SP and AP.

Trolls also make the list with their Haste active racial, which provides a whopping 25% haste, which is absolutely insane for healers and casters.

Meanwhile Alliance have... nothing even remotely as useful as those Horde racials, so, what can be done?

As I see it, there are two options, firstly is the controversial yet very popular idea of introducing pickable racials. 

Secondly, racials could actually be balanced to give Alliance a chance, however I am not confident in this option, as it is often cited as the reason for not adding pickable racials, and so far the team has failed at implementing option two.

 

 

Edited by Sky

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Actualy i thought it was a joke / meme that alliance dont have acces to Warchief Buff lol.

Pickable Racials ! soon he said soon!

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This is just the truth actually, Horde have an huge advantage over Alliance due to "Warchief's Blessing" which makes them way more competitive for Realm Firsts and stuff like that. But thats not the real point of the issue. Lets look at the racials.
Human: +5 Expertise with Swords and Every Man for Himself <- (Good for PvP but heavily nerfed).
Orcs: +5 Expertise with Axes <- (Really good for current contents considering best 2H Weapon is Dark Edge of Insanity). Blood Fury <- (242 AP and 123 SP for 15 Seconds on 2m CD). Cant be used with trinkets that are On-Use obviously but it can be timed like Pop Jom Gabbar then as soon as it ends pop Blood Fury thats kinda having a double CD without counting other stuff.
Night Elves: 2% Dodge Racial (Useless considering as tank u can get enough avoidance). Shadowmeld (Useless in PvP as u can be seen easily, Somewhat good in PvE since it drops your threat).
Trolls: Increased Critical Chance with Bows/Throwns really good one for PvP and PvE. Berserk <- (Increases your Attack and Casting speed by 20% for 10 Seconds on a 3m CD). Pretty good for PvE and PvP aswell. 
Considering the fact that 99% of the Horde are made by Trolls/Orcs since they're the best pickable races due to their racials will just make things be unbalanced imo.
Pickable Racials would be the best thing for everyone so you can play the race you want with the racials you want it will be appreciated by Veteran and New players.

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I mean these changes would be amazing but we've been asking for pickable racials for a year and instead of pickable racials they nerfed everyman for himself. I would love pickable racials and an alliance buff to compare to hordes its pretty stupid that I have a 600dps loss by just moving from orc to human. I just dont have faith anything will come of this post.

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Posted (edited)

i like the idea other than pickable racials. If you want a racial pick it when you start for the race you want to play. Don't get me wrong i see the benefits in pickable racials but then horde players would just move to alli as humans just look better than any other race in terms of gear and tmogs, unless you use legion models like myself. I think the better idea would be to great a set for each faction that are similar so you are still locked into a faction but the race doesnt matter. So the alli version of the troll racial may be a flat crit buff for a duration, the orc one would be changed to be a smaller version of both ap and sp but the alli would get the same one aswell and remove the gnome racial completely (i hate gnomes with a passion so i might be biased AF). If the issue is balance then just copy and paste the racials so its purely down to choice of the player which faction/race rather than pickable. Having a gnome pop blood fury is just stupid in my mind, an element of it comes into roleplaying and race fantasy aswell so they would 100000% have to fit to that side of the game too.

Edited by FunkyFish

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I find it weird alliances don't have some sort of a buff like "Warchief's Blessing" or other buffs that would componsate for it. Its a huge buff for melee (perhaps also make it viable casters?). 

Pickable racial should be a think, it would fit really well with Classless design we got. I've heard "SoonTM" and some discussion about racial would ruin the "RPG" aspect or lore. But then again, undead using paladin spells sounds very weird and wrong for me :)

:+1: for this post sky

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14 minutes ago, Horgram said:

This is just the truth actually, Horde have an huge advantage over Alliance due to "Warchief's Blessing" which makes them way more competitive for Realm Firsts and stuff like that. But thats not the real point of the issue. Lets look at the racials.
Human: +5 Expertise with Swords and Every Man for Himself <- (Good for PvP but heavily nerfed).
Orcs: +5 Expertise with Axes <- (Really good for current contents considering best 2H Weapon is Dark Edge of Insanity). Blood Fury <- (242 AP and 123 SP for 15 Seconds on 2m CD). Cant be used with trinkets that are On-Use obviously but it can be timed like Pop Jom Gabbar then as soon as it ends pop Blood Fury thats kinda having a double CD without counting other stuff.
Night Elves: 2% Dodge Racial (Useless considering as tank u can get enough avoidance). Shadowmeld (Useless in PvP as u can be seen easily, Somewhat good in PvE since it drops your threat).
Trolls: Increased Critical Chance with Bows/Throwns really good one for PvP and PvE. Berserk <- (Increases your Attack and Casting speed by 20% for 10 Seconds on a 3m CD). Pretty good for PvE and PvP aswell. 
Considering the fact that 99% of the Horde are made by Trolls/Orcs since they're the best pickable races due to their racials will just make things be unbalanced imo.
Pickable Racials would be the best thing for everyone so you can play the race you want with the racials you want it will be appreciated by Veteran and New players.

Humans have 3 expertise with swords and maces, which makes them even worse than orcs.

Dwarves have 5 expertise with maces

Orcs have 5 expertise with axes and fist weapons, which also happen to be the best melee dps weapons due to poleaxe spec and close quarter combat being much better than sword spec or mace spec

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20 minutes ago, Horgram said:

Night Elves: 2% Dodge Racial (Useless considering as tank u can get enough avoidance). Shadowmeld (Useless in PvP as u can be seen easily, Somewhat good in PvE since it drops your threat)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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Posted (edited)

What about a staged talent tree like the on from live like this:

 

You unlock a Racial trait every 15 lvl. 15 / 30 / 45 and 60

Lets say 15 is nothing fancy just Resistance to choose like 3% less Shadow Damage or fire etc. You can only pick 1.

Than with 30 you can pick up a major trade example Diplomatie from Human.

Diplomatie: Increases all reputation gain by 10% (12% if Human). <-- Race would get a small benefit.

Other Examples:

Treasure Hunter: Increases all gold looted by 10% (12% if Dwarf).

Command: Increases damage dealt by Pets and Minions by 5% (6% if Orc).

 

45 could be profession preferences or something like that and with 60 you can pick up a CD abilitie like:

Berserking: Increases Haste by 20% for 10 Seconds (25% if Troll). 120 Seconds CD.

 

than give a way to switch racials, wanna Farm rep ? get Diplomatie ! Need Gold ? get Treasure Hunter! C'thun gonna slap your ass tonight ? better bring some more pet damage!

Edited by Vedartha

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8 minutes ago, mecar said:

Humans have 3 expertise with swords and maces, which makes them even worse than orcs.

Dwarves have 5 expertise with maces

Orcs have 5 expertise with axes and fist weapons, which also happen to be the best melee dps weapons due to poleaxe spec and close quarter combat being much better than sword spec or mace spec

Even worse then.

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Pickable Racials would solve the faction problem but then another one would rise. The fact is that Orc racials are clearly just superior for a dps character and are just overall great in PvP too. Anything else is at best situationally better. Pickable racials would help solve faction imbalance but it wont solve the fundamental problem of certain horde racials being just way better than the rest. And if you plan to balance this without major changes all i can say is, good luck.

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33 minutes ago, Horgram said:

Night Elves: 2% Dodge Racial (Useless considering as tank u can get enough avoidance). Shadowmeld (Useless in PvP as u can be seen easily, Somewhat good in PvE since it drops your threat).

Yikes, someone is misinformed.

 

If Warchief's Blessing makes up such a huge deal, why not just remove it? It came late with no real reason and only delays raids.

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6 minutes ago, F3lix said:

Pickable Racials would solve the faction problem but then another one would rise. The fact is that Orc racials are clearly just superior for a dps character and are just overall great in PvP too. Anything else is at best situationally better. Pickable racials would help solve faction imbalance but it wont solve the fundamental problem of certain horde racials being just way better than the rest. And if you plan to balance this without major changes all i can say is, good luck.

Everyone knows ppl will just use orc racials for dps. But honestly I'd rather have 2 balanced factions using the same racials worse than having a faction who is 5% worse than the other at dps (and 5% is not an exaggeration).

 

In a perfect world, racials would be balanced, but the devs clearly have been saying they want to do this for a while and still haven't done anything worthwhile. Might aswell just add pickable racials if they cant fix the issue.

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Posted (edited)

If Warchief's Blessing makes up such a huge deal, why not just remove it? It came late with no real reason and only delays raids.

 

Na it doesnt delay since you clear way faster with it. It will make a huge difference when it comes to the Naxxramas race, in addition its a unbalanced Buff cause it favor melee with 15% haste. Hunter builds and Caster in general gain no damage boost from it. You can see the powerspike for melee from it during raid, specialy in 25 man when all raidbuffs are available it ramp up extrem.

Edited by Vedartha

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1 minute ago, Gubbyascension said:

If Warchief's Blessing makes up such a huge deal, why not just remove it? It came late with no real reason and only delays raids.

I'd actually be open to this as well, my concern is (hopefully) pushing the team to get Alliance and Horde on an equal playing field, doing this DOES achieve that. 

That being said, they're likely to face some backlash from removing it, where as there would be minimal-no backlash for adding it to Alliance as well ^^

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Posted (edited)

Free Xfaction changes to alliance isnt going to fix the underlining issues, horde has 15% haste buff, pet dmg, axe specialization, 242 ap and 100 something sp buff not on GCD 2min CD. Pretty stupid considering everyman doesnt break fear anymore bc seasonal babies.

Edited by ZzStueck
Miss type.

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I think the arguement of breaking fantasy for racials is null and void based on the fact that everyone can be everything. Make it so they are race masked, so the name changes based on the race (eg, not 'blood fury' for alliance but 'lights blessing' or some bs like that) to make it more RP friendly.

A quest mirroring the Warchiefs Blessing quest should be made for the Alliance as they miss out on a big buff there.

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First of all i totally agree with the blessing buff, would be a massive balancing for racing the 1. achievs on naxx and maybe even later.
Then about racial. Tbh pickable racial would be only a half-solution. It would ofc balance both factions but just with all players taking horde racials. So imo you should both make pickable racials AND balance them, so the choice wouldnt be obvious

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Pickable racials should be added asap, there really isn't any negative to it. I know somepeople will say "Well then everyone is going to pick it." so what that's a way better issue to have then one faction having an extra trinket at all times.

15% haste buff should be given to alliance, I'm sure the dev's could easily add the quest to alliance, removing would be a bad idea as some have said that people have grown accustomed to it and adding it to alliance won't piss anyone off.

again these changes have been asked for by alliance for almost 2 years now. so I don't really know if the dev's will ever do it.

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20 hours ago, SirGank said:

again these changes have been asked for by alliance for almost 2 years now. so I don't really know if the dev's will ever do it.

The only way we can push for change is if we continue to stand up and make a lot of noise, eventually they'll have to respond ^^

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