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bobblo

Speculation about Molten Core Difficulty

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Hey all, i am currently leveling on Andorhal.  I am still a bit away from 60, but i would like to open a discussion about Molten Core. I am sure no guilds are currently raiding 40 mans yet, so this is post intends to speculate about the raiding scene on this server.  

Before we start, we know that the developers want to see a diversity of builds and would balance the game around this goal.  Whether or not this goal applies to PvE remains to be seen. In addition, i am going to assume that the developers want MC (and any other raid for that matter) to be at least pleasantly challenging.  They have mentioned the possibility of hardmodes, but we will have to wait and see how this plays out.  Nonetheless, i will still keep this assumption.  Finally, i will assume that left without change, MC will be facerolled.  We all know how much more damage and healing players do on 1.12 servers.  A classless server at patch 3.3 skyrockets these numbers.  

Problem #1:  Players have access to the best of abilities.  On retail, at any version of the game, you have to settle on the abilities the class provides you.  Your only choice really lies in your spec.  So, hunters had abilities like Beast Lore, which is effectively garbage, and Wing Clip, which is useless in PvP.  On this server, you can spend all your AE on useful abilities.  With dual spec, or even quad spec, a player may have a PvE oriented spec that offers all sorts of tools that a retail player would have only dreamed of.  Most rotations require only a handful of spells, five at max.  That leaves you with plenty of room for offensive and defensive cooldowns, crowd control, buffs, and other miscellaneous spells.  

Possible Solution #1:  Put a lot of the power of abilities in talents.  For the most part, talents do one of three things: offer new spells, buff the stats of your character, buff rotational abilities.  Many of those other abilities are at near max strength by just spending the two AE.  For example, Sheep costs 2 AE, and you will be able to CC a PvE target for 50 s.  I suggest reducing the duration (because players should be capped at 10 s anyways) or increase the chance a PvE target will just randomly break sheep.  Then, make a talent that returns this power to the ability.  Other examples include Innervate, Feign Death, Resistance Auras, Resurrection (and similar spells of that caliber), Heroism (granted available at 70), Howl of Terror, and Taunt (and other similar abilities).   

Problem #2: Bosses are still weak at this patch.  Bosses still do comparatively low damage and have low health pools.  In addition, with the abilities we have access to, they are insubstantial.  Trash will certainly fall prey to these same faults.  

Possible Solution #2: Buff bosses.  Easy enough.  I think most servers already buff boss hp and some of their damage, and we already know this is not enough.  Inventing new abilities may ruin the feel of the fight and are possibly difficult to implement.  I think a better option would be to take a certain boss's ability and buff that.  For example, if we are fighting Baron in MC, instead of creating Living Bomb, increase that amount to 3.  In addition, increase the damage of that ability so that two stacked Living Bombs would certainly cause death.

I am curious as to what you guys think.   

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While i fully agree to some point, this is something that not only hits dungeons and raids. It's also omnipresent in PvP, one has the opportunity to do way more damage then back in the days. I agree that something needs to be done anyways, but i'm not even sure if that's possible in the way you wanna do it.

If they can change damage scaling on boss skills without those bosses bugging out at some point, i'm 100% up for it. But if that is not the case, i'm not sure if creating more problems in order to solve one problem is the way to go.

 

Maybe limit the amount of players that can join the raid? From 40 to 20 or even 15?

 

But as far as it goes for me, i am pretty sure balance can never be achieved with everyone being able to spend points on whatever skills they want. But i may be wrong.

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Try to take into account that the devs made a formula to up the power of Instanced PvE content to counterbalance these issues, if its done enough or too much still not sure but they definitely are harder than standard base vanilla.

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2 hours ago, bobblo said:

and Wing Clip, which is useless in PvP.

lol? spammable at will, decent range, almost no mana cost, eventually procs a immobilize, probably the best snare to use in PvP

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4 minutes ago, dioporc said:

lol? spammable at will, decent range, almost no mana cost, eventually procs a immobilize, probably the best snare to use in PvP

Lol, i meant to say PvE.  

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2 hours ago, Loozka said:

While i fully agree to some point, this is something that not only hits dungeons and raids. It's also omnipresent in PvP, one has the opportunity to do way more damage then back in the days. I agree that something needs to be done anyways, but i'm not even sure if that's possible in the way you wanna do it.

If they can change damage scaling on boss skills without those bosses bugging out at some point, i'm 100% up for it. But if that is not the case, i'm not sure if creating more problems in order to solve one problem is the way to go.

 

Maybe limit the amount of players that can join the raid? From 40 to 20 or even 15?

 

But as far as it goes for me, i am pretty sure balance can never be achieved with everyone being able to spend points on whatever skills they want. But i may be wrong.

Balance is all about what your goal is.  If your goal is merely diversity of specs, you can achieve this balance.  

And i should add that limiting the players just highlights this problem.  You don't need that many players to get all the abilities that you would need, and more.  

Edited by bobblo

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Molten Core was tested a fair bit during beta, bosses are stronger, they hit harder and have more HP, and there are also some custom mechanics on bosses.  This is true for other raids like ZG as well.

Many people from beta will probably say that MC is actually overtuned and too difficult.

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