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Dev Update #76

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2 hours ago, downonknees said:

Please bring back that frostbrand cause proc fingers of frost , it was working as intended , you just killed whole frost hybrid spec remowing this mechanic

This is currently working on PTR.

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Just now, jungla said:

Rank6 blizzard to normal trainers ūüėȬ†

We've got a card up for this issue now.

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Overall, there's cool changes here. But, please, bring back insta-Chain Heal from Maelstrom Weapon.

If it's op on PVP, just make it don't work on PVP fights, or If isn't possible to do it, nerf Chain Heal on PVP fights as you did with some damage spells.

If the issue is with the Nurturing Instinct interaction, it alredy had a nerf so maybe it's time to test and tweak it again. Im bringing this because I wanted to play my melee-healer build again, I know it probably won't be viable besides a dungeon healer, bt it's a fun way to play as a healer that got killed by that (old) change.
 

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10 hours ago, itswicky said:

Did this stop working on the PTR, or is this an older report?

it is an old report but i just still wondering why it was removed because it was working as intended and this change just killed whole archetype

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2 hours ago, downonknees said:

it is an old report but i just still wondering why it was removed because it was working as intended and this change just killed whole archetype

It was not removed intentionally, but it was instead removed due to a bug. It is currently fixed on our PTR realm, which means the fix will be on live servers once the update is complete.

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2 hours ago, itswicky said:

It was not removed intentionally, but it was instead removed due to a bug. It is currently fixed on our PTR realm, which means the fix will be on live servers once the update is complete.

yep ive alrdy tested it great job

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Can you make "ferocity" have 3 points instead of 5? And do you have any feral/bear changes in mind overal? We have have a cool overhaul for 2h tanks, why not anything for bears? as of now with the "survival of the fittest" nerf moonkins have similar armor to bear tanks which is disappointing to say the least. Please buff the talent but make it only useable in bear form :/

Also, I had a idea for "shadow melee" build that I was rocking in the beta. What if there was a RE that makes your melee abilities shadow damage & proc vampiric embrace. As of now the "shadow weapon RE is pretty useless. The idea is something like this: 

 


Corrupted Champion RE:

Shadowform infuses your melee abilities with shadow damage. This damage works with vampiric embrace.  Your maelstrom weapon will be able to use shadow bolt.

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17 hours ago, itswicky said:

We have a few updates to some of their REs in the notes if you missed them, but overall we're pretty happy with the state of bears atm.

Thanks for the reply, pretty interesting how you are happy with the state of bears when there are literally no bears at all

 

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7 hours ago, ChaoticDjin said:

Thanks for the reply, pretty interesting¬†how you are happy with the state of bears when there are literally no bears at allÔĽŅÔĽŅ

ÔĽŅÔĽŅÔĽŅ ¬†

Little bit of a hyperbole I think, but it's a bit more to do with the fact that 2H tanks are a bit stronger than we'd like, I think, than it has to do with the fact that Bear builds are too weak. They still make very fine tanks, and we still see a handful of very viable bear builds in PvP.

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32 minutes ago, itswicky said:

Little bit of a hyperbole I think, but it's a bit more to do with the fact that 2H tanks are a bit stronger than we'd like, I think, than it has to do with the fact that Bear builds are too weak. They still make very fine tanks, and we still see a handful of very viable bear builds in PvP.

I'm sorry but that's just not true. There is no handfull, and no way in hell in pvp. I used to be the only one period.
Fine tanks? Moonkin with shield are even better than bears man.

- They can use all prot/def cooldowns
- More AOE moves/stuns
- Have same armor with 3 point talent
- Have block  

Since you made that statement, Name one reason why anyone should pick bear?

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Moonkins don't gain a passive bonus to their health or threat.

Moonkins don't have access to high value talents such as Protector of the Pack which reduces your damage taken by 4% per point, or Furor which increases their Stam by an additional 3% per point, or their multiple 2% dodge per point talents.

Moonkins don't have access to Savage Defense which can mitigate a large portion of damage.

Moonkins don't scale as well with Strength or Agility as bears do.

 

Now I wouldn't say that you couldn't go ahead and tank as a Moonkin if you wanted to. You've made some good points as to why they can be used as tanks. I also think you're maybe underselling the value of Bears as tanks, however. Bears have more passive mitigation, which is very valuable against mechanics like Fierce Blows being used on every boss fights and they offer more health and avoidance to boot.

 

 

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When will mutilate get a rework? the 3 reslot scuffed it really hard, and while backstab can still work thanks to it haveing a lot more different re's to work off. mutilate is still a high cost energy ability that does less damage per use then backstab when re'ed and not to mention doesn't even have enough re's to fill out a character thanks to the 3 re limit.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, ChaoticDjin said:

Since you made that statement, Name one reason why anyone should pick bear?

Savage Defense. Build it right and that's a 1.5k+ absorb every time you crit. You're not going to tell me that's not attractive, are you?

Add to that the fact that bears are still the best at stacking HP and you have the ideal soak tank for Patchwerk's Hateful Strikes. No, they're not the absolute best tank most of the time, they lack the threat tools for that, but they're really not far behind the other tanks in terms of viability at all, and excel in their niche.

 

7 minutes ago, SirGank said:

When will mutilate get a rework? the 3 reslot scuffed it really hard, and while backstab can still work thanks to it haveing a lot more different re's to work off. mutilate is still a high cost energy ability that does less damage per use then backstab when re'ed and not to mention doesn't even have enough re's to fill out a character thanks to the 3 re limit.

It just did. Use muti to gen CP, evisc every 5 CP. Use FA + Relentless Strikes. Muti is fine.

Edited by smart blart

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14 hours ago, smart blart said:

Savage Defense. Build it right and that's a 1.5k+ absorb every time you crit. You're not going to tell me that's not attractive, are you?

Add to that the fact that bears are still the best at stacking HP and you have the ideal soak tank for Patchwerk's Hateful Strikes. No, they're not the absolute best tank most of the time, they lack the threat tools for that, but they're really not far behind the other tanks in terms of viability at all, and excel in their niche.

Not true. You would need 6000 attack power for a 1.5k absorb lol. Even with RE's you need about 4k. In PVE they are viable, not the best but they can get the job done. In PVP there are big inconveniences regarding rage generation from damage given & taken and vs casters. For instance Savage Defense doesn't absorb spell damage, or gain rage from spell damage which could be a really helpful buff if they changed it since it's already a pain in the ass to catch casters.

 

I'm just asking for basic buffs, as of now: 8 rage generated per hit and bear moves cost 15/20, rage gained from damage taken is nonexistent, its incredibly frustrating having to wait 5 seconds to get enough rage to use 1 move. And have no rage at all vs casters at all times. There is a reason there are no bears man, even for tanking. Why even try to justify their shortcomings?

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, smart blart said:

Savage Defense. Build it right and that's a 1.5k+ absorb every time you crit. You're not going to tell me that's not attractive, are you?

Add to that the fact that bears are still the best at stacking HP and you have the ideal soak tank for Patchwerk's Hateful Strikes. No, they're not the absolute best tank most of the time, they lack the threat tools for that, but they're really not far behind the other tanks in terms of viability at all, and excel in their niche.

 

It just did. Use muti to gen CP, evisc every 5 CP. Use FA + Relentless Strikes. Muti is fine.

Sigh, read what I'm saying instead of arguing with people, atm mutilate is just a scuffed version of backstab, both builds do the same thing. it's a one button build. it's boring as hell it has nothing going for it in terms of gameplay. you press mutilate, then slice and dice, then eviscerate, then back to mutilate then eviscerate ect ect ect. it's been the same play style over the past year nothing has changed while backstab at least got a interesting gameplay design even if you can't use it on c'thun. The damage on mutilate is a lot lower then it was before, it's overall a worse build thanks to the re limit while other stronger builds have suffered a far less thanks to the changes.

 

Mutilate needs a complete redesign instead of being a scuffed poison clone. I know you play hybrid and it's easy to see you're trying switch the focus back on hybrids to get them buffed and ignore less played builds.

tl:dr Mutilate isn't fine, it's a scuffed version of backstab that does less damage now while having the same game play style as backstab, it's current basic build setup has less rotation skill then even vanilla rogues.

Edited by SirGank

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Posted (edited)

I found another 2 bugs (1 i mentioned before thro <.<) on ptr:
1) fiery weapon doesnt work/proc (both re and normal ench)
2) After Crusader proc Slice&Dice re breaks until you re-eq the item with it! (both re and normal ench crusader)

Edited by wowfen

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Posted (edited)
On 3/9/2019 at 8:11 AM, SirGank said:

Sigh, read what I'm saying instead of arguing with people, atm mutilate is just a scuffed version of backstab, both builds do the same thing. it's a one button build. it's boring as hell it has nothing going for it in terms of gameplay. you press mutilate, then slice and dice, then eviscerate, then back to mutilate then eviscerate ect ect ect. it's been the same play style over the past year nothing has changed while backstab at least got a interesting gameplay design even if you can't use it on c'thun. The damage on mutilate is a lot lower then it was before, it's overall a worse build thanks to the re limit while other stronger builds have suffered a far less thanks to the changes.

 

Mutilate needs a complete redesign instead of being a scuffed poison clone. I know you play hybrid and it's easy to see you're trying switch the focus back on hybrids to get them buffed and ignore less played builds.

tl:dr Mutilate isn't fine, it's a scuffed version of backstab that does less damage now while having the same game play style as backstab, it's current basic build setup has less rotation skill then even vanilla rogues.

You're saying muti is a crappy 1button spec, and I'm telling you it's not a 1button spec at all anymore. Previously you would obviously exclusively spam mutilate, and I'm telling you that's no longer optimal. Not only that, but Mutilate, the ability, literally got a 10% damage buff this very patch! You can ignore what I'm telling you if you want, but don't complain that your build sucks when stuff gets changed and you don't update your build.

Energy isn't an issue if you change your REs/playstyle to eviscerating every 5 CP with Relentless Strikes+the REs, and Muti got a damage buff. It deals competitive DPS and is no longer a 1 button spec. What's the issue exactly? That it didn't get a complete rework ala backstab?

Quote

I know you play hybrid and it's easy to see you're trying switch the focus back on hybrids to get them buffed and ignore less played builds.

You're joking, right? I have never and will never play hybrid. The fact that you think this tells me you don't know anything about me, so don't try to take this discussion to ad hominem. I've gone back and forth between Slam and Mutilate for almost a year now, and feel reasonably confident in saying that both are quite solid specs in all current PvE content.

Edited by smart blart

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Posted (edited)
On 3/9/2019 at 1:34 AM, ChaoticDjin said:

Not true. You would need 6000 attack power for a 1.5k absorb lol. Even with RE's you need about 4k.ÔĽŅÔĽŅ In PVE they are viable, not the best but they can get the job done. In PVP there are big inconveniences regarding rage generation from damage given & taken and vs casters. For instance Savage Defense doesn't absorb spell damage, or gain rage from spell damage¬†which could be a really helpful buff if they changed it since it's already a pain in the ass to catch casters.

 

I'm just asking for basic buffs, as of now: 8 rage generated per hit and bear moves cost 15/20, rage gained from damage taken is nonexistent, its incredibly frustrating having to wait 5 seconds to get enough rage to use 1 move. And have no rage at all vs casters at all times. There is a reason there are no bears man, even for tanking. Why even try to justify their shortcomings?

3500 with the RE. You get 2225 AP from 2x dark edges just from the bonus feral AP on them with Predatory Strikes. 1900 with 2x ashkandhis. This is before any other stats on any of your gear, the stats on the weapons, AP modifiers, enchants etc. 1500 is a realistic number, and frankly underselling it. All that stuff about PvP is fair enough I guess.

Edit: Ignore me, I'm stupid. Read the talent as 150% of the bonus AP on your weapon, not 20%.

That's 1070/909 AP before anything else, which is still quite a big chunk of AP, and 1.5k absorbs are still quite attainable.

Edited by smart blart

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3 hours ago, smart blart said:

You're saying muti is a crappy 1button spec, and I'm telling you it's not a 1button spec at all anymore. Previously you would obviously exclusively spam mutilate, and I'm telling you that's no longer optimal. Not only that, but Mutilate, the ability, literally got a 10% damage buff this very patch! You can ignore what I'm telling you if you want, but don't complain that your build sucks when stuff gets changed and you don't update your build.

Energy isn't an issue if you change your REs/playstyle to eviscerating every 5 CP with Relentless Strikes+the REs, and Muti got a damage buff. It deals competitive DPS and is no longer a 1 button spec. What's the issue exactly? That it didn't get a complete rework ala backstab?

You're joking, right? I have never and will never play hybrid. The fact that you think this tells me you don't know anything about me, so don't try to take this discussion to ad hominem. I've gone back and forth between Slam and Mutilate for almost a year now, and feel reasonably confident in saying that both are quite solid specs in all current PvE content.

Read what I said,  it would make it easier instead of me having to say it over and over. Mutilate is a extremely easy rotation build, only requiring as basic two ability to pressed (unless you some how manage to forget to press eviscerate within 20 seconds of slice and dice. Majority of the build is spamming 3 mutilates then one eviscerate then if you want to add a little rupture. You're still pressing one button for 70% of you total damage is still from mutilate, don't act like it's not a one button spec because now you gotta use eviscerate once every 7 seconds. only time mutilate works is if your running mc or any other low requirement raid. on progression or difficult fights mutilate fails to live up against many other builds.

 

The problem with mutilate isn't damage but it's lack luster play style that's basically just a scuffed version of back stab.

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7 minutes ago, SirGank said:

Read what I saidÔĽŅ,

Why do you keep saying this? I'm directly addressing your points.

 

8 minutes ago, SirGank said:

Majority of the build is spamming 3 mutilates then one eviscerate

So the majority of the build is pressing a button, then another, different button? Woah dude, you cracked WoW's code. That's what 99% of DPS builds are. Hell, that's what Backstab is.

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Another bug -> when you got Elemental Oath talent, then change into moonkin and back you dont have any buff left, nor elemental oath, neither moonkin aura :(

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Posted (edited)
On 3/10/2019 at 1:55 AM, smart blart said:

Why do you keep saying this? I'm directly addressing your points.

 

So the majority of the build is pressing a button, then another, different button? Woah dude, you cracked WoW's code. That's what 99% of DPS builds are. Hell, that's what Backstab is.

Ooof, if your idea of a rotation is pressing a eviscerate about 10-15 times a minute and the rest being mutilate as anything more then one button spec, then i'm at a  lost for words. and also the current mutilate setup has a less rotation then rogues or warriors in vanilla. Backstab has at least 4 different buttons to press, backstab to reduce shadow dance cd, then shadow dance so you can ambush and every ambush you also use Shadow step to gain 20% damage increase. and you also use eviscerate to keep up slice and dice. maybe learn about the builds before you start saying that backstab is a one button spec. it was before it's rework but not anymore.

Edited by SirGank

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Posted (edited)

@SirGank

Its possible to rotate like:  Muti -> Evis -> Muti -> Evis 

With: Seal of Fate, Honor Among and Ruthlessness (+RE) = 5CP's on 1 Muti after the first. 

Finishers has been buffed by 10% from Fate.
So i would run Improved Evis talent+RE instead of investing everything into Muti.
Find Weakness is now crit which is a nerf but means Seal of Fate will be even more reliable.
Which of course Relentless Strikes would have huge value here.

Maybe the best way to rotate is even like:

Muti -> Rupture -> Muti -> Eviscerate

While focusing more on Crit + AP scaling as it could be a 3 GCD rotation which isn't all involved around normalised dagger attacks.
Just shooting in the dark here, i have done no tests on this. 

I am purely a PvP player so perhaps i am out of my element but this seems like the logical way to be using Muti now in PvE  
Muti has been moving into this direction step by step for awhile, soI would recommend going back to PTR and
running a lot of Tests with finishers as a main focus instead of just Muti.

Edited by Ashsj1992

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Posted (edited)

Oh you bois... always waiting for nerfs to try out the Memeviscerate. Where you're going, I'm coming back from :D

On a side note, are u guys having issues with PTR? It's constantly disabling all my REs even though they're not over 3 or 1. I reequip an item, then that item's RE is enabled but all others get disabled again >_<

Edited by MonkaS

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