Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Mosorentor

Wild Card Suggestion

Recommended Posts

Everyone 10 levels or so you shuold get to choose one spell to re-roll in case you get a completely useless spell along the way - this will help make things a little more enjoyable in case you got really bad rolls.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd recommend that one should be capable of selecting ONE SPELL from a randomized list of three spells in order to increase one's possibility of attaining a decent or acceptable spell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that's a bad idea. The problem with Wildcard right now (in my opinion), is that it's to easy to get an optimal build. You've got some bad abilites? Just start over, level up to 20 and decide if you want to continue or start over again. With the bonus experience you get on season 3 realms, this process takes minutes. MINUTES. I've talked with people that made perfect Hunter, Bear and Fire Mage build because they rerolled until they got what they wanted. The Dice of Destiny might be fun for a while. but it's just a bridge to reach optimal builds. You want Sinister Strike, Heroic Strike, Battle Stance and Rend? You can, but you won't be leaving the starting zone for a while (and yes, I've tried that).

 

What's the point of "Wildcard" if you're able to achieve the same thing as on a normal realm? 

 

As I said in the beginning, the problem with Wildcard is that it's to easy to reroll and start over. I'm no game designer, but here are a few ideas to fix this "problem". My aim is to discurage the need to start over and/or make the Dice of Destiny less important: 

- Increase the experience needed to level from 1-20. This would not fix the problem, but it would discourage players from starting over since it will be slower to reroll. 

- Amazing Warlock abilites such as Fear, Lifetap, Imp are moved to a higher level tier. Many of these abilites are great no matter what you're playing, so making them less accessible would lower the overall power of each build (and reward lucky players, as it should be). Feel free to replace them with Drain Life, Searing Pain and Create Healthstone.

- 1 character per realm. Dice of Destiny is gone and your character can't be deleted or remade.  This one is a bit extreme, but I actually think this would be the best solution. Each build would be unique and you'd be stuck with what you get. Some will be lucky while others might be unlucky. Scrolls of Fortune would still be around to aid any poor sod with bad rng.

- 1 character per realm. Dice of Destiny is gone and your character can't be deleted or remade. **You get a new character slot when you reach level 60 with a character.** A mild version of the one above. 

 

What do you think?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, warrh said:

I think that's a bad idea. The problem with Wildcard right now (in my opinion), is that it's to easy to get an optimal build. You've got some bad abilites? Just start over, level up to 20 and decide if you want to continue or start over again. With the bonus experience you get on season 3 realms, this process takes minutes. MINUTES. I've talked with people that made perfect Hunter, Bear and Fire Mage build because they rerolled until they got what they wanted. The Dice of Destiny might be fun for a while. but it's just a bridge to reach optimal builds. You want Sinister Strike, Heroic Strike, Battle Stance and Rend? You can, but you won't be leaving the starting zone for a while (and yes, I've tried that).

 

What's the point of "Wildcard" if you're able to achieve the same thing as on a normal realm? 

 

As I said in the beginning, the problem with Wildcard is that it's to easy to reroll and start over. I'm no game designer, but here are a few ideas to fix this "problem". My aim is to discurage the need to start over and/or make the Dice of Destiny less important: 

- Increase the experience needed to level from 1-20. This would not fix the problem, but it would discourage players from starting over since it will be slower to reroll. 

- Amazing Warlock abilites such as Fear, Lifetap, Imp are moved to a higher level tier. Many of these abilites are great no matter what you're playing, so making them less accessible would lower the overall power of each build (and reward lucky players, as it should be). Feel free to replace them with Drain Life, Searing Pain and Create Healthstone.

- 1 character per realm. Dice of Destiny is gone and your character can't be deleted or remade.  This one is a bit extreme, but I actually think this would be the best solution. Each build would be unique and you'd be stuck with what you get. Some will be lucky while others might be unlucky. Scrolls of Fortune would still be around to aid any poor sod with bad rng.

- 1 character per realm. Dice of Destiny is gone and your character can't be deleted or remade. **You get a new character slot when you reach level 60 with a character.** A mild version of the one above. 

 

What do you think?

The last option seems suitable since it would force players to play the hardcore version of "Wildcard" while being rewarded with the option to create a completely different character at level 60.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, warrh said:

- 1 character per realm. Dice of Destiny is gone and your character can't be deleted or remade. **You get a new character slot when you reach level 60 with a character.** A mild version of the one above.  

 

What do you think?

I think that's a great idea. I signed up to play wow in a fresh way that random classless provides but knowing that there are players who will re-roll for hours to get a perfect set of skills is frustrating because i'm forced to do the same if i want to compete with them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

 

On 5/15/2019 at 5:48 AM, Sidereus said:

- 1 character per realm. Dice of Destiny is gone and your character can't be deleted or remade. **You get a new character slot when you reach level 60 with a character.** A mild version of the one above. 

Yeah I like this a lot as well, Wildcard doesn't really feel random but it isn't because there's too many rerolls available, it's because all of the best "core" abilities to make the strongest builds are skills you can attain between levels 1-10. (aka, starter skills that can be rerolled into infinitely) 

So, to break it down:

-Simply removing the Dice or limiting its uses at lvl 1 doesn't solve the issue since someone can remake a character.

-Making reroll scrolls less plentiful doesn't solve the issue either since you really only need them after level 10, which is after you've gotten your perfect setup to begin with.

Options are kind of limited then; to either A. The above quoted suggestion or B. Changing the levels that certain skills can be gotten out of the 1-10 levels and moving them up the chain to higher levels, where they're harder to attain. (The big culprits, everyone knows what they are)

I don't know much about how the inner workings behind either of these options work, but I do agree that something needs to be changed heavily if we're to get a true wildcard server, not a normal "pick your abilities"-lite server. 

Bear in mind though, that if players don't have as much access to powerful things a larger percentage of the time, then the content will innately be more difficult for most, and may need to be tweaked also which would definitely require work either way.

Edited by Msctx

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Msctx said:

Options are kind of limited then; to either A. The above quoted suggestion or B. Changing the levels that certain skills can be gotten out of the 1-10 levels and moving them up the chain to higher levels, where they're harder to attain. (The big culprits, everyone knows what they are)

 

Yup! Combining both are probably overkill, but one of those would make wildcard more enjoyable for me. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Dice of Destiny is gone and your character can't be deleted or remade.  This one is a bit extreme, but I actually think this would be the best solution. Each build would be unique and you'd be stuck with what you get. Some will be lucky while others might be unlucky. Scrolls of Fortune would still be around to aid any poor sod with bad rng.

Hypothetical scenario. You roll Arcane Intellect, Eviscerate, Life Tap, Fade and Defensive Stance. You can't reroll. You can't deal any damage. By the time your tears have dried, your rival with Sinister Strike, Heroic Strike, Battle Stance and Rend has hit level 20. Yeah okay, sure, we've got professions to somewhat allow you to grind out levels. So it might not turn out for the worst in the end.

But it misses the point. Everyone and their pet dog is rerolling. It's not a fun process. It's not a beautiful process. It's not a meanginful process. 

People will always do this min-max stuff. It's unavoidable. I'm having immense difficulty keeping to a true wildcard system and solving this start problem. You want people to make their character and go right? Go play the game, not play a glorified slot machine for hours on end. So force them on a single roll and go. But  nobody's waiting to kill things with a 20x as long TTK as someone who actually got some meaningful skills at the start.

I get that the concept of the forced wildcard servers is the risk, intrique, excitement of not knowing what happens next. But at some point you have to compromise on the wildcard realism. You need a ruleset of mechanics that enables a baseline of fun for everyone. That might mean abandoning some of your principles on what wildcard is to get things going. Give a caster a wrath or a fireball. Give the tank his thunderclap. Give the DPS his sinister strike. 

It's either that, or rerolling for 5 minutes to 8 hours. Or being stuck autoattacking mobs to death for 20 levels while Xxdankweedkillx clears his fifth dungeon. With his ill-gotten high risk gear because he had abilities to kill things. Or a pacifist run where you live off the land and its bountiful resources.

At least, that's how I've experienced things thus far.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, damascus said:

 

I get that the concept of the forced wildcard servers is the risk, intrique, excitement of not knowing what happens next. But at some point you have to compromise on the wildcard realism. You need a ruleset of mechanics that enables a baseline of fun for everyone. That might mean abandoning some of your principles on what wildcard is to get things going. Give a caster a wrath or a fireball. Give the tank his thunderclap. Give the DPS his sinister strike. 

In my ideal wildcard mode, the option to pick even one skill ruins it (people will min/max and pick the best). With that said, I think a guaranteed random damaging skill would be an awesome addition to avoid the whole "auto attack until level 20". 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Allow you to pick 2 skills at level 1. 

Everything else is random from lvl 10 onward. 

At level 20 you get to pick 1 or 2 skills. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I have no clue why people are so concerned about min maxers. There is no way to avoid them. "Only one character per realm" and then they just make hundreds of accounts to create hundreds of characters, which isnt healthy for the server nor the account backend.

We should aim to refine the fun we already have, removing the things that just plain suck. Like the infinite rerolls, and meta builds (it's classless there will always be broken meta stuff, if you want a smoothed out power level experience go play FFXIV or some other MMO). Not a fan of the like 3 meta builds you can usually play either, but I still like to feel powerful, if not at least capable.

Everything apart from what damascus said sounds to me like a good way to kill the seasonal realms. People would log on, level maybe to 20 or 30 (or take hours to get out of the starting zone with PW: fortitude, track beast, amp magic Def Stance and conjure water) say to themselfs "Well this char is borked, it's unplayable!" and never touch the realm again.

Having a floor of fun is important, any good game has it (admitedly some floors are waaaay lower than others but still). Personally I enjoy the pinch of randomness in my usual classless so my perspective might be different. It's called Wild Card for a reason (I hope) 

wild card
noun
noun: wildcard
  1. 1.
    a playing card that can have any value, suit, colour, or other property in a game at the discretion of the player holding it.

doesnt even mention random in there at all. If it would be called "Random Randy Realm" it would be a different story but as I see it they did a splendid job of letting you play out your Wild Cards and incorperate your smarts. 

random
/ˈrandəm/
adjective
 
  1. 1.
    made, done, or happening without method or conscious decision.

If this would be true we'd have no starting abilities, no level restrictions, no stance restrictions. You could end up with Arcane Power, Recklessness, Titan's Grip, Moon Kin form and Swipe (Bear) (which you either could use in any form or not use at all till you rolled Bear Form) at the start. THAT WOULD ELIMINATE MIN MAXING Making it truely random would stack the odds so far against people creating new characters over and over against that it would be utterly unfeasible, which would solve all the problems you see in the current Wild Card format. So no, you don't envision the ideal wildcard mode, we are pretty close to that already, what you are looking for is a completely random mode, without any method (/pattern), or (conscious) decision(s).

Then again the seasonal realms are very well suited to trying out doomed concepts so sure why not? But it could probably sustain maybe one realms if even that after the hype dies down, unlike right now where months after launch people still join (like me).

I tried to be as constructive as possible. From my inexperienced perspective (on Ascension, I like to think I am rather well versed in game design as a whole), it seems like some people are with their head in the clouds without taking the current situation properly into account and solving existing problem. Yes it's much easier to just scrap he entire system and start over, and I did mention that would very well be worth a try, but it simply isnt what we have at hand right now.

Edited by IamMe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

Project Ascension

Embark onto Azeroth like never before, as you create and play the hero of your dreams.

Ascension Facebook Ascension Twitter Ascension Discord Ascension YouTube Ascension VK
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you confirm you are 18 or older and agree to ourTerms of Use.