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itswicky

Wildcard Feedback

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Howdy Heroes! I'm here today to ask you guys how Wildcard mode is going for you over on Bloodscalp and update you on some improvements we're making to the system.

The first thing I'd like to ask you guys is what build have you ended up with? The second is what are some things you like, and don't like, about Wildcard mode? We're continually looking for feedback to improve the system to make it as polished as possible.

Lastly, I'll go over some improvements we're making to the system and will have on seasonal realms as soon as they're complete:

We've added additional rules which requires certain prerequisite abilities to be learned before some abilities can be learned. All warrior abilities, Shaman abilities which require totems, and a few others have be included to the list.
We've also fixed a bug which allowed clever players able to select abilities for their random build.

Some additional things we're looking to add as seasonal progresses, but isn't quite yet ready for testing yet is the ability for wildcard mode to select talented abilities while leveling and the ability to select a keystone (level 60) talent when you've hit 60.

 

Big thanks to everyone who has joined us on Bloodscalp, and if you haven't checked out Wildcard mode yet be sure to do so! I look forward to hearing from you, Heroes.

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Imma be the first one!

 

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Got backstab in my starter pack and had to auto attack stuff til lvl 14 and then I got Mind Blast(some help) now i'm 35 and this is all that I rolled.

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Also got portal mastery, but overall it's really hard leveling, since the only thing i can safely do is autoattack things with flametongue on, cause for hunter skills i'd had to keep kiting and kiting in most areas attracts many mobs.

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:1776:526:5277:686:5487:1126:1535:62124:6673:31789:586:980:1495:8092:498:853:1008:6143:1284t2:821t2:827t1:1817t3:461t3:463t3:465t3:943t3:1042t3:967t5:1061t1:981t1:

Basically I got lucky and use Shadow Bolt, Mind Blast, and Curse of Agony. I have a few utility spells like Hammer of Justice and Divine Protection. I also have Mongoose Bite and Gouge if anyone gets too close!

I'm seriously enjoying Wildcard Mode, It's fun looking forward to every other level to see what I'll get. Sure I got a lot of useless abilities but I've been able to stack Shadow talents and do well with just those 3 abilities.

Looks like you guys are already fixing the only issues I have with Wildcard (ie. Can't get Shadowform/Talent Abilities, and Abilities with Requirements.) I do want to add though that I dont think Wildcard plays well on a High-Risk server, it's all so random that people with poor builds will be gank bait.

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Cant share it via pictures since i use discord on the phone but i basically got a Holy Priest(lvl 41 atm): Holy Fire, Smite, Flame Shock, Renew, Heal, Victory Rush, Counterspell, Lightning Bolt, Drain Life, Arcane Missiles, Ressurection, Rebirth, Cone of Cold, Stoneskin Totem, Conjure Water, Blessing of Wisdom, Seal of Justice, Fade and Mind Control(which is unnavailable so im waiting for support my ticket has been open for 2h now ). But its ok so far. You have to reroll characters a bit if you dont want to get 1lvl in 2hours at lvl 15 >.>

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WC on a hardmode server with normal PvP characters is a joke - horrible mismatches unless they are utterly incompetent.  This is more pronounced as you level and they are incentivized to just farm you since they know its free gear.  I guess this was done in the name of 'challenge' - but of course it is just a tedious rng in dealing with ganking with the worst sides of WoW.   Yay.. 'challenge'?  At least its not as bad as S1 gank squads everywhere, but it certainly takes away from the charm of what WC has to offer.  

WC mode on a WC only server would be more of a success. Its oddly addictive to see what your next ability will be and play with what you have.   I'm about 60 now and generally had fun.  I would stay if it was WC only and do some WC only dungeons and such.  But na - when I'm 60 I'm outta here with how it is now. 

I'll give it a C+, mostly crippled by the choice to put it on a combined high risk server.

 

B5CkvYQ.jpg

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https://project-ascension.com/development/builds#/talentsandabilities/editor/?hash=:72:116:139:467:768:1459:1513:1978:3599:5502:6343:8122:57994: Build works fine, trying for the most to stay away from other people and gather as much gear as possible to be able to survive against the outlaws. Was a bit difficult in the beginning as a caster. Worked out  okai after buying water

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Wildcard has the potential for fun, but the mess of horrific abilities has made leveling awful for some Wildcards.

PvP is just hopeless as a Wildcard. No escapes, no closes, no heals, no dps, no instants, just mashing Sense Undead and Hand of Salvation in frustration.

Getting additional "rolls of the dice" at intervals leveling would be interesting and fun, and a way to add "more chances at random" to overcome just awful luck.

 

Also, if resetting / more rolls of Wildcard were a thing, specific dice could be made drops / rewards.  I.e. "Paladin Dice" gets you a random Seal and Judgment. "Holy Healer Dice" gets you two random holy based heals.  "Rogue Dice" gets an energy spender and a combo spender. "Warlock Dice" gets  random demon and a warlock offensive spell. " Mage Dice" gets a random bolt spell and a random AoE spell. 

They could come in Uncommon, Rare and Epic versions as well. Giving 2, 3 or 4 class skills.  So "Paladin Uncommon Dice" gets a seal and a judgment. Rare gets a seal a judgment and an aura. Epic gets seal, judgment, aura and a blessing.

There would also be Common Dice that just gets you a completely random ability just as it does now, that could pad out the AP spending.

So you could somewhat plan a coherent build, but it would still be quirky and sub-optimal.

 

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One idea I had, was instead of scrolls of unlearning, Wildcard players could get a new set of dice every 10 levels allowing them another chance at random abilities.

If they get bad luck during that 10 level bracket they could roll the dice again again, potentially getting better abilities or potentially getting worse abilities.  

Edited by Skray

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Here's my wildcard feedback. being pvped by none wild card players is boring and the opposite of fun.

Getting tracking skills over and over is a terrible design feature that I hope you remove for your battle royal map that we all know wild card is testing.

Bloodscalp should have been made fully wildcard instead of this half and half decision.

 

It's a fun concept that only really works to it's fullest potential when everyone has to do it.

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@itswicky

I got mixed feelings about wildcard mode, but all in all I must say it turned out worse than I thought. It's not fun and it's not challenging, it's just tedious and bad gameplay.

First of all, the fact that you can get 1 ae abilities is the worst decision ever. I am level 34 now and so far I got FIVE 1ae abilities that is Dampen Magic, Conjure Food, Detect Traps, Amplify Magic and Water Walking. This is not fun to get, not at all. Ontop of that I got other useless stuff such as Track Beast and I multiple hard casting spells which is just a terrible and boring design. I'm aware that being able to get useless stuff and multiple hard casting spells and a mixture of melee and caster abilities is the "challenging" aspect of wildcard mode but the fact that you can get these useless stuff level after level really just makes it not fun to play and you can't really make any sort of build out of it.

Wildcard could be a fun concept but it needs more work. It needs to be less random in some way. You have to make some kind of "algorithm" that makes sure the player will have some sort of mana-regen, that the player will at least have one interrupt, one damage ability, one heal etc. And you need to make a way so players can get abilities from talent trees such as Mortal Strike.

Or maybe have it so players are allowed to choose 3 abilities and then rest will be random.. idk..

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As far as spells go I seem to mostly get summon Imp, renew and wrath in 80% of the rerolls, ocasionally 1 point spells such as conjure water hit into the mix. I'l have some fun when my xmass vacation kicks in , I'l have about a week which should be enough to hit 60 in this weirdo-enabled mode and have fun. I'm a bit sad I can still manipulate the first reroll at lvl 1 for wildcard since I can reuse the cube over and over instead of remaking the character. I'm just tempted to reroll till I get stealth and play with what ever I get after wards.

 

Its a interesting mechanic but it may not be for everyone, especially with "loot drop on death" enabled in the mix. I can tell I am the definately the targeted audience, but some may not be.

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I loved leveling as WC but there are few things need to be fixed:

1. If player has enough free talent points, abilities from talent trees should also be granted.

2. Getting several abilities that do exactly the same isnt fun. I mean ressurect spells of different classes for example.

3. I really dont think that normal players should be able to attack wildcard chars. There is almost 0 chance that wildcard can win PvP. Leveling with random abilities is hard enough.

Make wildcards only be attackable by other wildcards. Maybe allow wildcard to attack normal player and only after that he can attack wildcard in return (and attack again for next 15 minutes).

Edited by mindw0rk

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The only thing that made it bearable from about L45 on was "banking" Omen of Clarity, leveling up, unlearning Omen and then getting a 2AP 1TP talent skill.

By L45 all I had was Lesser Heal for self-healing, and I just lost enjoyment needing to chain cast it 7-8 times to refill 75% of my health bar.

All the tracking abilities just got silly.

 

The WC vs. Non-WC pvp was best dealt with by accepting the first death and rezzing at town, then finding a different zone to play in.

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Need to remove most of the useless abilities like sense undead, track humanoid, etc. from the table of spells you can pull from. It's unfun.

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Hello everyone, here's my story.

When I've found about WildCard I looked through the achievements. Found ones about raiding and decided that the best way to be helpful is to try to be a healer.

I created my first character, enabled WildCard and started playing. Got no healing spells by the level 23, furthermore most spells were useless: shield bash, track <something>, battle stance, lifetap. The offensive side was also kind of bad, it included spells of all types: ranged (concussive shot), dps spell (immolation), melee (both raptor strike and heroic strike), dot (curse of agony and corruption). I couldn't be anyone with such a setup, leveling was tedious and I didn't know what talents to even pick. I ended up going for Two Handed weapon enhancing talents and stat buffs. Quickly got bored after that and made a new character.

This time I created a character and it got... Rejuvenation, Healing Touch, Stealth and Hunter's Mark. I couldn't believe my eyes: I just got two great healing spells! But that made me think... Was that the best combinations of starting spells for a healer or could I find a better one?

So I created another character and it had bad spells, then I moved to a general goods trainer and re enabled WildCard mode. It gave me new spells, so I understood that I can roll anything, but it will cost time. I've checked all the spells that were available and decided to find best combination to start as a healer. I've decided that the best ones would be Rejuvenation and Healing Touch for a druid like build or Holy Light with Renew to later use Beacon of Light with them. I'd need some offense spells to level too and the Spell Mastery of course!

So I've started to reroll starting abilities. It took me three hours to get Holy Light, Power Word: Shield, Spell Mastery and Fireball. Well, PW:S is not a renew, but I quickly made a build that can make that work. All set, let's go! Abilities that I've rolled during leveling (in the same order):

  • Life Tap, Bloodrage, Intimidating Shout, Righteous Defense, Healing Touch, Redemption. At this point I was really happy because I could really do a healer with a ress.
  • Then I got: Unending Breath, Searing Pain, Mind Sooth, Aspect of the Viper, Track Elementals, Ghost Wolf. Wolf was a really nice find because I didn't have enough money for a mount yet.  Aspect of the Viper was really great for a healer too.
  • Then I got: Raptor Strike, Mind Vision, Sinister Strike, Disengage, Evasion, Frost Trap. Those were some great rolls because now I had some more offense in a melee with no resource cost. At this point people started asking me "Do you actually have those spells as a WildCard?!".

At this point I realized that WildCard can't learn active spells from talent trees. And that was crushing, all my plans for this interesting WildCard build were destroyed. I still can heal, but it won't be anything as effective as non WildCard healer because they heavily rely on spells from talents.

I'm going to continue leveling for now, but I will list my current feedback below.

 

I'm gonna list the problems with the system and also my personal suggestions.

1. Rolling abilities by deactivating and reactivating WildCard mode at level 1 (or recreating a character) can help with your starting choice, but it's not fun.

  • Let WildCard characters spend their 9 starting spell points like everyone else in the season. Lets people choose their "core" spells that will make them comfortable and won't screw a character.
  • Level requirement to roll into WildCard mode at level 1 can then be changed to level 9. More time for players to decide if they want to do this fun mode.
  • Spending non-spent ability points for random spells at the start should still be an option.
  • Summing everything above. Dice can be used up to level 9 to enable WildCard mode. Enabling WildCard mode spends all of the characters UNUSED spell points to roll random spells.

2. There're no balance in getting spells for different purpose. For example, now you can get mind blast, shadowbolt, fireball and wrath at the same time. It's a flexible setup for interrupts, but in the end 3 of the 4 spells are not going to be used in pve. Also, that's not fun!

  • Spell categorization. Add a new layer of a random. First, system rolls a category of a spell, then it rolls a spell. The more spells player already has from this category, the less the chance of it getting spell from the category.
    • For example we have 3 categories with 10 spells each. Probability weight of each spell in the category is 1, so the weight of each category is 10 and chance of each category is 33%. Then character learns a spell and weigh of one category goes to 9 and stays as 10 for two others. This reduces chance to roll spell from first category. In the end the more spells from one category you get, the higher the chance you get a spell from another category. Once you get spells from other categories, you get a higher chance to roll a spell from this category.
    • Weight 1 per spell is just an example, higher weights for spells (or even different ones) allow for better chance to roll different categories in a sequence.
  • Categories can be added as follows:
    • Offensive ranged spells (castable and instant)
    • Offensive ranged weapon spells
    • Offensive melee spells (mana, rage, energy dependant)
    • Healing (instant heals, hot heals, shields)
    • Resource regeneration and buffs (Evocation, Mana Ruby, Bloodrage)
    • Offensive Cooldowns (Rapid Fire, Recklesness, Tiger's Fury)
    • Defensive Cooldowns (Shield Wall, Ice Block)
    • Utility (control spells, ress, battle ress, dispell, interrupt)

3. There're spells that are not useful at all and are not being picked at all by the community. Those are Tracking spells, Soothing Spells and some others depending on situation (I'm gonna talk about latter separately).

  • I suggest some options:
    • Removal of those spells from the WildCard pool.
    • Moving those spells into a different category and giving this category a really low probability weight to begin with.
    • Have a maximum number of those spells rolled on a character. 2-3 should be okay.

4. It's very hard to be a healer with a WildCard and almost impossible to be a tank. DPS also struggle because of some spells that have no use to them.

  • Abilities that can be learned only at the start. Bear form, for example. There's no fun in getting a bear form at the high level because most of the spells don't work with it and you don't have spells that don't work with it. You either get Bear form at the start and have a chance to roll abilities for it or you don't have Bear form at the start and don't get any abilities for it.
    • Same with hunter's mark or autoshoot. If you get autoshoot, you can get hunters mark later. If you get hunters mark, you get autoshoot later. But if you didn't have those at start, then you shouldn't roll them later.
    • Cat form is different, it gives player some speed at least.
  • Role-driven progression. If a player got 4 healing spells or a hot and casting healing spell, then give them an ally-resurrection as a next spell, they are probably going to be a healer at a cap. Same goes to aggro-generating abilities, give a taunt.

5. You can't choose spells in the talent tree and those are super important for high level pve and pvp content.

  • I suggest some options:
    • Let WildCard characters get new Spell Point Currency every level instead of normal one. They can spend it by rolling spells at random or buying spells in talent trees. Spells in talent trees now also cost new currency instead of normal one.
    • Let WildCard characters spend Spell Points into a negative amount if they are learning a spell in a talent tree. Check total amount of spell points when player sends a request to the server to prevent learning extra abilities.
    • Add spells that are learned from a talent tree to a pool of learnable spells once WildCard character is eligible for it. Sadly, this way they can't get 3 point cost spells, but combining it with a method with negative numbers it's still possible.

6. Same effect spell grouping. Probably already implemented?

  • If you rolled an out of combat resurrection spell, then you shouldn't roll one from another class. Having hunter pets and demons are also not a great idea.

 

Well, anyway, Ascension is a great server indeed and WildCard is a great feature. I'm willing to help with WildCard mode and it's deeper integration into the season system. If you ever need me, send me an e-mail.

Regards, Alexey Slashchev
Lead Game Designer at Game Insight
shaler404@gmail.com

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I've has a terrible wildcard experience. Given im lv 30 still autoattacking, but I do have a bunch of heals and tanking abilities so that's somewhat useful. Either way challenge accepted. But I would like to see an Ironman mode of wildcard, with maybe soulbound items/group limitations/ and maybe a one life mode.

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Wildcard in regular server is a bad idea.

Make everybody to play as wildcard and once they hit 60 to be able to respec and play properly. The changes are going to be great, but make sure that people to get something useful at 20 30 40 50 and 60 instead just 60

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Wildcard was a pretty lame season imo. I just dont see how taking your ability to choose abilities and talents on a classless realm away from the players is a good idea to showcase the project.

 

The drop rate for ilvl should also be dramatically higher if you're out risking the gear. I'm ilvl 75 and I still get about the same drop rate on epics, there is no real noticeable difference other than having a chance at nef loot but even then, its still too low to justify risking the items. 

The outlaw system is retarded if you're a stealth class. Make activating it possible from stealth please. They are outlaws after all. 

I'm hearing rumor of a wildcard only season coming up and I would just say that is a horrible idea in comparison to some of the others that have been generated by staff and the players. Do not waste a whole season on some bullshit gimmick that takes away from every single thing the project is about ie. picking your skills from the entire pool of abilities. 

Also, when will i be receiving royalties for Crow's Cache event? I am serious. Seems like I should get a title: The man, the myth,the legend. Would settle for a vanity bundle. 😁

Great work this season, it's been fun regardless of my dislike of wildcard feature. 

-Crow

Edited by Fame

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Instead of getting complete random skills it would be nice to maybe have the choice between 3-10 skills(havent really thought about the amount yet). Just like we have in Hearthstone arena maybe? So everytime we unlock ability points we open the ability window, see a few skills and pick one. I just started to play here so I dont know exactly how everything works but making it completely random doesnt seem good.

Edited by pattax

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