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Community Balance Discussion - 4/11/2019

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Hey guys!

This thread is to gather feedback and ideas about balance changes that the community wants to see on live realms. Express any ideas, thoughts, concerns, or points of view on the patch here, and be as concise and articulate as possible. The goal here is to pinpoint particular, specific issues and develop solutions for them--addressing individual changes, spells, and potential tweaks will be ideal.

Please upvote changes that you think would be ideal--especially ones that are well thought out. We're working on putting together a poll system in-game that will better track the community's opinions and desires. Post away!

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Posted (edited)

Hello there is one thing missing from this update - 

  • Frostbolt- Damage and scaling increased by 15%. - IN PVE (Just because Frostbolt is META in pvp does not mean you should just ignore it in PVE ❤️
     

    Tbh i don't really mind this update i have never liked stealth being "abused" as it was (This change might have been a bit overboard but not for me to say really)

  • Healers, needed a nerf, not sure if this was the CORRECT option, Haste = makes rotations feel more responsive and fun

  • Casters didn't lose anything and i can now dual wield, Everything got a "base castspeed adjuset. Smite/frostbolt got (less), And frostbolt didn't get any scaling update at all, and that is the only thing i don't like  - Should just add a pvp modifer like the rest, just because frostbolt is META in PVP on LS does not mean it should be ignored for PVE

Edited by jungla
Updated

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Allow mutilate legendary affect be a buff on the player rather then a debuff on the mob, like executes legendary 25% haste, it has a horrible time with  target swapping which rogues already have a problem with seeing as they have no effective good aoe.

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I'm curious to hear about your overall analysis of the PvP meta. My opinion is that PvP is incredibly fast-paced, with big burst and a huge emphasis on avoiding damage (through CDs or CC).

The spell mastery nerfs to heal specs are offset by damage nerfs in PvE, can we expect similarly big nerfs (through a resilience buff?) restoring balance in PvP as well? I think that would be great.

I also hope, as I have for a long time now, that you start buffing things again. Player power has been going backwards for like 8 months now, which is really problematic considering that character progression is one of the main driving forces in MMOs. Don't you think?

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Posted (edited)

Master of Deception is no no longer worth 5 talents revert back to 3/3 and buff Camouflage  - Stealth problem

Revert Spell Mastery and give flat healing nerfs instead  - Healing problem

Edited by Ashsj1992

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Posted (edited)

Why was shadow DoTs the only class to receive buffs. Other casters have lost 15% damage on most spells and have been given a relatively small reduced cast time in comparison with 25% haste. I feel like other specs have received mediocre changes while DoTs have received a really good change and this will funnel players into this playstyle. With flat 15% damage increases all round.

I feel like instead of broadening the options certain changes are funneling more players into certain builds. Hybrids and DoT sustain builds are incredibly powerful right now and will remain so until they are correctly addressed.

Why do tanks in PvP have to suffer for having a shield? With a total loss of 20% healing to self. You cater to this for PvE but PvP is ignored which is rather disappointing. Would you consider reducing the healing reduction on defensive stance to 5% rather than 10 as it is currently?

 

 

 

Edited by Tekkies

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Feels rather shitty not being able to haste cap yourself anymore...some healer paths just feel like unfinished archetypes. Would much rather see a dampening in throughput rather than haste sources. With the length of time Spell Mastery has been around for, it's one of those things you would really want to leave for deprecation in an expansion transition, i.e TBC.

On that note, bring back passive Netherwind Presence :V

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Posted (edited)

Remove base resilience, make PvP gear the only source of resilience(possibly at the cost of offensive stats), and dramatically increase the effect of stacking high resilience. You introduced this mechanic back when fresh 60s had 1,5k HP. Now fresh 60s have 4,5~5k HP. They don't need babysitting in PvP. PvE schmucks don't need it either. Make PvP gear great again. 

As an icing on a cake, you will no longer have to deal with coding abilities to do less damage to player characters. This type of ghetto resilience is really cancerous 'couse there's already well established and itemized on top of it stat that does exactly the same.

 

Aditionally, I'd love to know the reason talents/REs that reduce duration of stuns/CC/movement impairing effects are getting nerfed or otright removed. Getting passive immunity to being slowed and/or severely reducing duration of stuns/CC was incredibly costly endeavour, we're talking roughly 25 TE worth of investment on top of multiple REs. Half of what you get to play with at level 60. Half of your build devoted to do just one thing. It was never optimal nor was meta for this reason, but it was extremely fun to kite heavy melee endlessly. Doing flag carry duty was also absolutely hilarious. Why are you destroying this? Is it wrong, bad fun? 

Edited by Jandice Barov

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Posted (edited)

Thanks for hearing the populations concern and starting this post.

I agree that healing overall needs a nerf, but nerfing a slot (shield) is overall a very bad design. And completely removing haste makes the gameplay stale and boring.

 

1) Rework the Spell Power Stat

To nerf "spell tanks" and offensive caster healing output - go through 60 level, t1,t2,t2.5,t3,pvp sets - and get rid of most spell power on those. As a start, I would divide the X of spell power stat into (0,75 X of spell damage + 0,25 X of spell power) for casters and  (0,75 X of spell healing + 0,25 X of spell power) for healers. 

For example, Nemesis set,  gives 203 SP - change that to 152 SPD and 51 SPH.  Redemption set - 206 SP change to 154 SPH and 52 SPD.

2) Rework and adjust casting time through talents, to keep 15% haste for everyone.

Removing 25% haste, which determines the way both pvp and pve are paced, is too much. 
a) carefull positioning will become way harder
b) long casts will become way more harder to finish - and additional 0.5 second window for enemy interrupts is too much for a sudden increase.

For example, Lights Grace - in addition to lowering cast time after a successful cast, make it passively reduce the cast time of Holy Light by 0.3 sec (12% haste sort of).  Add a similar effect to Nature's Bounty and so on. Judgements of the Pure - increase haste to 9% or 12% for example. 

3) Why is fear-polly-botting still a thing? 

Why dont fear and polly have at least 5, or better a 10 second CD? People abuse that way too much, casting fear or polly 3-4 times in a row hasnt been adressed. If you are fighting 2-2 and someone starts chaining those two - you can let go of the keyboard. 

Edited by Hysteria

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1- Revert the spell mastery changes, and nerf healing output instead. The talents required to regain haste close to the 25% we had crushes build variety and lowers healing even more than a 25% haste nerf and 6% healing nerf from using a shield. A change that large feels too clunky to keep healers around. Also, the longer you make healing casts the more that allows them to be interrupted and the more time you allow interrupt abilities to come off CD, which again is a nerf to healers. If im going to shadowfury to stun and cast a spell, but my cast takes too long, I will have to cancel the cast and kite, just to continue this process. It makes PvP feel less "reaction" based because you cant be a "good player" and sneak a heal in due to longer cast times. For instance, theres a 3/3 TE ability for 25% healing wave healing increase.... You guys need to look at the talents we have currently for anything thats clearly broken, like that talent. Theres NO other talent that you can get that much benefit from 3 TE. If the goal was to nerf healers, just make that a 15% max healing increase for 10% effective nerf on all HW builds. Not that HW is the meta because regrowth/rejuv is stronger in my opinion, im just pointing out that talent. 

2- Dot casters running staff + shield can be fixed by applying an aura to anyone who uses a shield. "While a shield is equipped, the player will do 20% less SPELL damage". The major complaint of spell dot casters is that they have too much dmg and healing. This would reduce their damage and we could see how this plays out. Also if you didn't want to apply an aura, you could just reduce the base damage of shadow dots, either way tanky DOT casters need to go.

3- Looking at the post above me also inclines me to suggest this. 1) Make a difference between healing power and spell power as a stat, IE, healer sets have only HP and dps sets have only Spell Damage. SD will only affects damaging spells, and same for healing spells. (retail style last i checked) Adjust the values so that the HP of a healing set reflects closely the SD value of a DPS set. Further, you could introduce spell damage--> Healing power conversions to gain a little extra healing for "sustain" style caster builds (maybe a 5/5 talent for 20% of SD to HP conversion. Additionally, splitting spell power into spell damage/Healing power would also be a nerf to hybrids which are the meta "melee" build. This would make them also less sustain as SP doesn't immediately give HP. It would force them to invest into SP --> HP conversions and eat up 5TE which should inherently lower their damage output. 

Side note: I think this would be interesting for the market of items as well, because now there are more BIS items as SP and HP have been split, meaning more items are desirable and worth more gold

4- On a tangent from the previous point, if you're melee and not hybrid, you are at an immediate disadvantage compared to hybrid builds. Idk what exactly, but pure melees like arms needs some sort of buff to make them a viable option. 
 

5- Don't put stealth on a CD. Despite stealth not being used 100% of its duration, that doesn't mean you should take it away from people. Stealth has been the same ability since vanilla wow till current and people like what is familiar to them. In the previous announcement you guys stated you wanted to make stealth feel more meaningful and bring more power to it. I don't quite understand how putting it on higher CD and a duration is bringing power to it. If this was supposed to be a stealth nerf, make imp stealth cost more TE so that they are forced to take points out of damage and into anti-detection talents. Or if you really wanted to nerf stealth, make it cost more AE like 4-6 instead of 2 giving them less freedom. I dont necessarily want these changes but i think those would be better than stealth on a duration... 

6- I also saw a "make pvp gear great again" comment and I would like to see that very much. Resil and Resistance feel almost useless currently. I still get hit by 4k back to back shadowbolts with CD's putting me at 275 shadow resist. This would allow for PVP'ers to have an "advantage" over those PVE's because of the correct gear aka pvp gear has its purpose. The only reason people use it now is because of the insane Str + Agil + SP you can get for hybrids. I suppose this would make the server less "noob" friendly as those with no gear would get crushed in pvp... but they also would have something to "grind" for. 

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Change the Stat allocation system. Instead of letting players allocate their stats, Allow players to choose an archetype ex: Strength, Agility, Intellect, Spirit hero, Where the respective archetype functions like they would in normal wotlk, like a str arch would scale stats similar to a warrior or dk. Agility would be similar to a rogue. Intellect or spirit would scale similar to which ever corresponding class had the highest of the given Stat.  Think this would cut down on overall OPness of Stat scaling and bring overall powerlevels down a tad.
 To clarify also when choosing an archetype for instance like str you will still get 2AP per STR but you would only get crit from agi and not AP like a warrior would. This would be true for each of the other given Archetypes. And all Archetypes would have the same Stamina allocation. Tanks would just get extra Stam boost from gear and spec choices.

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So when is this fuckup with stealth being fixed? 10s is way too long, it breaks the flow stealthbuilds have entirely. It was not the right way to go. Talents like track hidden etc should have been buffed to fix the gank issues.

Same goes for the haste nerf for caster, everything is clunky. 

These changes fixed nothing but broke everything.

 

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Posted (edited)

Dear Devs, 

I believe all community members would like to receive some feedback in return. Did you like any of proposed ideas, do you agree with our statements regarding recent design? What's your opinion on the current state of pvp after the balance notes? What do you think of the massive community haste nerf disapproval? I, personally, would like to hear your opinion on these subjects.

Edited by Hysteria

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Posted (edited)

On retail players don't have access to almost an infinite amount of ways to brake Hardcasting with CC,  it's a different game. 

Also Blizzard dumbed down there game so much they actually increased the GCD at the end of Legion
Go watch some retail 2019 PvP, its slow paced, dull and the reason some of us came here. 

Spell Mastery was a blessing and they should of worked balance around it, instead of taking this shortcut
which didn't even directly deal with the issues the Spell Power meta was having.
 

Edited by Ashsj1992

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2 hours ago, Ashsj1992 said:

Go watch some retail 2019 PvP, its slow paced, dull and the reason some of us came here. 

It's not like PvP here is any better in all honesty. On one hand you have players getting global'ed, on the other you have players achieving more or less immortality and the only way to stop them is to cancer chain CC hoping they altQQ since normal fight would last till the server shutdown without going anywhere. Such shizophrenic design is neither engaging nor fun. And, most importantly, not healthy for server pop. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer in a nutshell. And you have fake god worked on by green warlord on top of it. The only fun I still find in PvP on LS is mindstorming memespecs, since actual pvp experience is, to put it bluntly, trash. 

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