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brozenadenzen

The Concerns and Grievances of a New Player

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Hi all, hope you are all alright :D This will be a post summarising my experiences and thoughts as a veteran WoW player but new to Ascension. Just to get it out of the way sarting moments and leveling were really fun. You can be whatever you want and you get the items you need to level smoothly. One small note is that I would prefer to be able to pick your racials too but that's just a flavour thing.

Now let's get to the meat of this whole thing and the reasoning for my post - I'm around 58 and I don't want to ding to 60. In a world where TG exists and players in Moonkin Form with 8k health charge you with 2 giant axes and crit you for 5k I don't want to bring my fragile mage-like Hero to 60. There is no catch-up system in place. There is no way I can compete with a zerg group of raiders who took the easy way gearing up. Crow Cache? What Crow Cache all I saw was a massive swarm of guildies who dominated everything. Why is RE even in the game? All it does it enables people to stack Stamina and get their damage through RE, rather than sacrificing survivalability for damage stats/talents. RE are not interesting in any way, they are just stats and damage boost - something that this server clearly has an abundance of already. It creates a MASSIVE disparity between new players and old ones. Why is raiding even a thing on a PVP focused realm, you have the other one for that. On a realm where currently gear determines everything you can't get very good gear through PVP?! It was a Vanilla problem and it seems it's LS problem too. Sure I could zerg with my in-game friends too...oh wait I don't have any. I'm new and while leveling I've met literally 2 people. 60s stay in major cities, queue for raids and bgs, and only leave in massive groups. World PvP is absolutely dead. the problems and issues are blatantly obvious yet very little seems to have been done. I read some changelogs and watched some videos and yet I'm left baffled. Drastic change is needed in order to retain new players or the server will die. Which would be a shame because as far as I know this is the only classless server and I love the idea of it. 

 

Do I know how to fix it? No, I don't claim that and the suggestions I am going to give are probably flawed and won't work as I imagine but hey we need to try something:

1. Remove RE, they are unnecessary and bloat the damage to gargantuan and unsustainable proportions. 

2. Increase item drop rate, especially epics. Farming players is fun, farming mobs isn't. If I wanted to farm mobs to progress I'd join Blizzlike servers.

3. Remove raids. It's counter-intuitive that the way to get solid items on a PvP realm is through PvE. It wides the already wide gap between players.

4. Create honour vendors or some other currency that you can get by killing players. You can spend that for good items as an alternative to raiding. 

5. More/Easy respeccing. One of my biggest issues is that I can't test stuff. I'm not necessarily talking about specs, just the functionality between tweaked abilities. For example stances and stealth. From purely mechanical point of view I don't know what interacts with what in what way. Asking in global chat doesn't does nothing. Tooltips aren't detailed enough to explain to me what stacks and what doesn't, not always. I don't want to farm and farm and farm, and respec only to find those two spells/talents don't interact the way I think. 

6. Introduce party penalties. If you are in a group, the players that you kill will drop less and less items depending on the group size. More than 6 players (aka raid group) will yield absolutely nothing from killed players. It would deter zerging. 

7. OPTIONAL - I would prefer to see only Vanilla talents and spells. TBC and Wrath abilities aren't made for Vanilla items and lack of resilience. It's fun, don't get me wrong but I feel it might be causing a lot of balancing issues. 

 

Feel free to discus but be respectful. I'm simply putting my opinion and I genuinely want the server to get better and grow. 

Edited by brozenadenzen

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1: Not something that's going to happen, the re system is something many players like and pve content is balanced with them in mind.

2: drop rate is increased already through the roof, fact is ls has a problem of to much loot making death almost a non issue.

3: No, they've already tryed this before and it almost killed ls. Plus people like raiding.

4: this just makes getting gear even easier, theirs no rng element in raid loot now and you can easily farm players (like making a alternative account and farming the characters on that account) so you'd make death an even less of a obstacle

5: Sure respecing should be cheaper.

6: I believe the 1v1 system will be introduced soon to ls if not already.

7: No that's a bad idea, to many talents that are vital for so many builds are in tbc or wrath  levels. removing them would causes a large amount of players to be unable to play their builds.

 

With all respect, it seems to me that your wanting gear given to you as fast as possible, ignoring that fact that the other players have been playing ascension for a year and half and worked towards getting the gear, what your asking is for massive changes for one player something that's not going to happen.

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19 hours ago, brozenadenzen said:

Feel free to discus but be respectful. I'm simply putting my opinion and I genuinely want the server to get better and grow. 

Thanks for the feedback!

We are aware that some players, especially new players, have experienced similar pain points. We have been working to address these and are implementing some of those solutions in Season 2. I'm really excited to see the results. Seasons are a great way for new players to catch up, as you start off on a level playing field AND can transfer to the main realm at the end of the season!

We have also been looking at and discussing the RE system and its place on high-risk. It's still WAY too early in our discussions to say more, but we recognize that strong gear combined with the right REs can create a significant difference in power between players. Unique issues surface around that in a high-risk pvp environment, and that's something I am really excited to tackle and try to solve.

Edited by Kaladin

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Whilst I like the way this was aproached, some points you put out may be a bit extreeme if not unnecesary for a "catchup" or "nerf" to happen and make pvp a lot more enjoyable, especialy on a realm where killing or getting killed can power spike you up and down drasticaly. So Ima address your points in the same order and shed some light/suggest to add to your points.

 

1. Whilst it is true that the RE system is the main culprit of all this damage mess, it is a custom "gimmick" call it, that is required to progress in our overtunned enviroment, removing it would require more work than it would to tweak it all together because all content is balanced around them. An alternative how ever I always preach about (and some others) is that no RE should be stackable, why? It allows for more diversity instead of aiming sky high for the biggest damage boost, highest shield count or the quickest casts, it still improves your abilities by adding an additional copy of the talent atop of the rest of your build, but thats about it, you are stronger but don't have as many damage modifiers to top it all up and get it even higher. Is it a solution? probably not, considering all content is built around these it would need a heavy overhaul and number tuning and may cause even more issues considering not every RE is of the same power, there is only as much when choosing between spells, so youl end up people picking meta eventualy since "Whats the point of using spell X over spell Y since spell Y does more damage than spell X".

2. Im not sure when was the last time you played this but drop rates are mad even without crows caches, a single sneaky run trough twilight camps in Silithus or demons in Winterspring yields good results to catch up to your old lost progress considering raid gear does drop in the world very often might I add.

3. Ehhh... Its a double edged sword as proven in the past, like it or not there isn't a "questionare" before logging on that kicks raiders out of the servers premices, raiders like the fact that the gear is not bound so they can trade it around, a feature unheard of in world of warcraft before, to top it off the "call it gimicky" RE system also doesn't bind gear so raiders can enchant each others gear as part of a "mini profession" when necesary. And considering the core game is still "world of warcraft" which was designed around players needing pve to progress into pvp or generaly gear up, its not as easy to remove it. Chop it off and you loose a massive playerbase, leave it in, and you get potential farming targets of which some (I've noticed a majority) don't have as much self awareness or mechanical skills to compete in pvp on this realm. At most everyone is able to "bubbleheart"/stealth jag back to safety, but is that really enough to get away? Draw your own conclusions here.

4. Picture a store that sells cake (everyone likes cake right..?), now imagine a super intelligent guy creates a machine next to the cake store which dispenses free cakes, why would anyone go to the store anymore? Now rename the cake store to "play the game normaly" and rename the machine into "murder your own alt characters". The picture gets clearer, we need heavy fail safes in order to get something like this runing, such as but not limited to "unique hardware ID locks", "IP checking of people online" that kicks 2 accounts that run of the same IP, Client that checks whether EXe has run trough modifications in order to bypass multi client starting, etc etc...

5. PTR was open the last few months constantly, allowing you to transfer your characters there and give respecing/gear cloned with your character so you can test things out, disheartening how ever is that the PTR may be ran less publicaly to allow such things to continue which may really require this change (A huge majority of the playerbase would welcomme this change, if not everyone instead of afk farming off on bgs)

6. This really depends whether your personaly view on "partying up" is repulsive or not, its a common mechanic in every MMO, not just locked to wow that creating alliances helps your and their cause in the future,guilds exist for a reason, its a mechanic given to players, whether they want to use it or not, is up to them. 3 companies exist in the real world, one ran by a single man the other two having a huge personell, can you blame the multi management corps for gaining an advantage because they have a bigger work force? No you cannot, its a basic principle of survival that can relate to this and vice versa. Adjustments can be made but don't put your coin onto it, 1v1 zones existed in the seasonal realm and produced mixed results. People would either pick encounters they can only win (Logic) or just fight for the fun of it since its just a short lasting realm. (Not give a damn squad)

7. Alike Re's , these are the second culprit due to wotlk/tbc spells having a higher base damage/odd scaling compared to their vanilla counterpart, but have you ever compared the two tree's next to each other? Heavily outdated and bland, besides its something unique to ascension, this would just take it away. (Mages had "wand" specialization increasing wand damage, how would you put that into the game nowadays? warlock spell stones giving magic shields but being offhand items, warlocks talent "sacrifice" paired up with voidwalkers here would be devastating considering hp values can get pretty high here, the list goes on.) Might as well host an actual 1.21 patch vanilla classless realm instead to mitigate all this and slowly move up to xpacs, and let me tell you, that its not as easy as transfering printed work from point A to point B, each core works differently and moving mods isn't as easy as "copy pasting" there.

 

Stride forward and keep pwning champion, and don't forget, "Fuck elves".

 

Cheese~ (Cheers)

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On 12/6/2018 at 3:50 AM, brozenadenzen said:

Hi all, hope you are all alright :D This will be a post summarising my experiences and thoughts as a veteran WoW player but new to Ascension. Just to get it out of the way sarting moments and leveling were really fun. You can be whatever you want and you get the items you need to level smoothly. One small note is that I would prefer to be able to pick your racials too but that's just a flavour thing.

Now let's get to the meat of this whole thing and the reasoning for my post - I'm around 58 and I don't want to ding to 60. In a world where TG exists and players in Moonkin Form with 8k health charge you with 2 giant axes and crit you for 5k I don't want to bring my fragile mage-like Hero to 60. There is no catch-up system in place. There is no way I can compete with a zerg group of raiders who took the easy way gearing up. Crow Cache? What Crow Cache all I saw was a massive swarm of guildies who dominated everything. Why is RE even in the game? All it does it enables people to stack Stamina and get their damage through RE, rather than sacrificing survivalability for damage stats/talents. RE are not interesting in any way, they are just stats and damage boost - something that this server clearly has an abundance of already. It creates a MASSIVE disparity between new players and old ones. Why is raiding even a thing on a PVP focused realm, you have the other one for that. On a realm where currently gear determines everything you can't get very good gear through PVP?! It was a Vanilla problem and it seems it's LS problem too. Sure I could zerg with my in-game friends too...oh wait I don't have any. I'm new and while leveling I've met literally 2 people. 60s stay in major cities, queue for raids and bgs, and only leave in massive groups. World PvP is absolutely dead. the problems and issues are blatantly obvious yet very little seems to have been done. I read some changelogs and watched some videos and yet I'm left baffled. Drastic change is needed in order to retain new players or the server will die. Which would be a shame because as far as I know this is the only classless server and I love the idea of it. 

 

Do I know how to fix it? No, I don't claim that and the suggestions I am going to give are probably flawed and won't work as I imagine but hey we need to try something:

1. Remove RE, they are unnecessary and bloat the damage to gargantuan and unsustainable proportions. 

2. Increase item drop rate, especially epics. Farming players is fun, farming mobs isn't. If I wanted to farm mobs to progress I'd join Blizzlike servers.

3. Remove raids. It's counter-intuitive that the way to get solid items on a PvP realm is through PvE. It wides the already wide gap between players.

4. Create honour vendors or some other currency that you can get by killing players. You can spend that for good items as an alternative to raiding. 

5. More/Easy respeccing. One of my biggest issues is that I can't test stuff. I'm not necessarily talking about specs, just the functionality between tweaked abilities. For example stances and stealth. From purely mechanical point of view I don't know what interacts with what in what way. Asking in global chat doesn't does nothing. Tooltips aren't detailed enough to explain to me what stacks and what doesn't, not always. I don't want to farm and farm and farm, and respec only to find those two spells/talents don't interact the way I think. 

6. Introduce party penalties. If you are in a group, the players that you kill will drop less and less items depending on the group size. More than 6 players (aka raid group) will yield absolutely nothing from killed players. It would deter zerging. 

7. OPTIONAL - I would prefer to see only Vanilla talents and spells. TBC and Wrath abilities aren't made for Vanilla items and lack of resilience. It's fun, don't get me wrong but I feel it might be causing a lot of balancing issues. 

 

Feel free to discus but be respectful. I'm simply putting my opinion and I genuinely want the server to get better and grow. 

 

Hey man,

 

We really appreciate this feedback and a lot of this stuff you've written here has been on our mind lately as well.

 

We're implementing quite a few things in Season 2 as CM Kaladin said that I think will help address a lot of concerns you've brought up, and we won't stop there. We're going to have to tackle REs in some way, shape, or form at some point. We have some plans, many of which we've begun implementing, we're just waiting for the opportune time.

 

Again, we really appreciate you sharing your perspective with us!

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On 12/6/2018 at 8:46 PM, SirGank said:

1: Not something that's going to happen, the re system is something many players like and pve content is balanced with them in mind.

2: drop rate is increased already through the roof, fact is ls has a problem of to much loot making death almost a non issue.

3: No, they've already tryed this before and it almost killed ls. Plus people like raiding.

4: this just makes getting gear even easier, theirs no rng element in raid loot now and you can easily farm players (like making a alternative account and farming the characters on that account) so you'd make death an even less of a obstacle

5: Sure respecing should be cheaper.

6: I believe the 1v1 system will be introduced soon to ls if not already.

7: No that's a bad idea, to many talents that are vital for so many builds are in tbc or wrath  levels. removing them would causes a large amount of players to be unable to play their builds.

 

With all respect, it seems to me that your wanting gear given to you as fast as possible, ignoring that fact that the other players have been playing ascension for a year and half and worked towards getting the gear, what your asking is for massive changes for one player something that's not going to happen.

1. Well rich people also like oil and having all the power but ok. Also stating that something broken will be hard to fix so let's just keep it broken is silly.

2. If you like to be drowning in useless blues sure, there are plenty to go around. We're talking about the good stuff. It's definitely an issue if someone is bringing it up.

3. Dead-er than this? Mkay I'll take your word for it . Also no, wrong. People don't like raiding, otherwise they would have joined the raiding server. People do raiding because it's the only way to get the best items, and it yields risk-free results. Introduce lose-item on death in a raid and see how quickly the raid will dry up.

4. In one of the plaguelands there is a measure that you can't kill the player you just killed for 300 (?) seconds. PvP safety measure can be easily implemented, it's not a rocket science.

7. This is just a personal preference chill lol.

 

With all DUE respect, I don't want anything for free. I just don't like some features that are causing massive imbalance. I'm not saying all steps should be implemented at the same time. For example if you get rid of RE and raiding, you might even go as far as reducing the item drop rate. And CLEARLY I'm not the only one who has issues like that 

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4 hours ago, brozenadenzen said:

1. Well rich people also like oil and having all the power but ok. Also stating that something broken will be hard to fix so let's just keep it broken is silly.

2. If you like to be drowning in useless blues sure, there are plenty to go around. We're talking about the good stuff. It's definitely an issue if someone is bringing it up.

3. Dead-er than this? Mkay I'll take your word for it . Also no, wrong. People don't like raiding, otherwise they would have joined the raiding server. People do raiding because it's the only way to get the best items, and it yields risk-free results. Introduce lose-item on death in a raid and see how quickly the raid will dry up.

4. In one of the plaguelands there is a measure that you can't kill the player you just killed for 300 (?) seconds. PvP safety measure can be easily implemented, it's not a rocket science.

7. This is just a personal preference chill lol.

 

With all DUE respect, I don't want anything for free. I just don't like some features that are causing massive imbalance. I'm not saying all steps should be implemented at the same time. For example if you get rid of RE and raiding, you might even go as far as reducing the item drop rate. And CLEARLY I'm not the only one who has issues like that 

1: It's an opinion that it's broken, I personally don't find it broken at all. second that analogy makes no sense for the context you give it.

2: Good stuff shouldn't be easy to come by, makes them less important. Just because you leveled to 60 doesn't mean you should be handed all the gear you want. also go vender or sell tho's blue's to make gold to buy your stuff ezpz. Also didn't you ask for increased drop rate, now you want them reduced?

3: Ls may be dieing but andorhal is pretty alive and growing.

4: And? it's still a terrible system, it makes losing your bis have no impact at all as you can easily just buy it again and again and again, terrible system.

7: Well then in my personal preferences I think your idea's are bad. imo.

So let's see, you want to get rid of content and less customization of builds? you clearly have no idea how bad of an idea this is. removeing content doesn't do anything against the issues that Laughing skill is facing.

Edited by SirGank

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6 hours ago, SirGank said:

1: It's an opinion that it's broken, I personally don't find it broken at all. second that analogy makes no sense for the context you give it.

2: Good stuff shouldn't be easy to come by, makes them less important. Just because you leveled to 60 doesn't mean you should be handed all the gear you want. also go vender or sell tho's blue's to make gold to buy your stuff ezpz. Also didn't you ask for increased drop rate, now you want them reduced?

3: Ls may be dieing but andorhal is pretty alive and growing.

4: And? it's still a terrible system, it makes losing your bis have no impact at all as you can easily just buy it again and again and again, terrible system.

7: Well then in my personal preferences I think your idea's are bad. imo.

So let's see, you want to get rid of content and less customization of builds? you clearly have no idea how bad of an idea this is. removeing content doesn't do anything against the issues that Laughing skill is facing.

You're a stubborn little donkey aren't you :D 

1. Ok I guess I should have explained better for the rest of the class. Only people who already have the broken thing enjoy the broken thing. Everyone else think the broken thing is broken because they don't get to abuse the broken thing.

2. Hard=/ tedious. Farming mindlessly random mobs is not hard, it's just a matter of luck. Hard would be when you get rewarded for using your brain. Seeling blues to vendors and buying your best gear doesn't sound hard to me, just tedious and braindead. But hey, people enjoy different things...I guess. I didn't ask for handouts, just for a proper catchup system that is not as punishing for new players.

3. LS is dying and Andorhal is well precisely because the things I've listed. That's the whole point of making changes and making these posts :/

4. I'm not arguing against losing your bis. I'm arguing that in order to get your best in slot you have to do silly things like raiding and zerging, which is against what the server was meant to be. I'd love to lose my bis, just give me a meaningful way to get the bis to begin with.

7. Sure w/e

I don't think bad content is something to be kept around just because it's content. And speaking of problems that LS is facing, please do tell those. Obviously you are such an expert and love giving your "personal opinions" 

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Just now, brozenadenzen said:

You're a stubborn little donkey aren't you :D 

1. Ok I guess I should have explained better for the rest of the class. Only people who already have the broken thing enjoy the broken thing. Everyone else think the broken thing is broken because they don't get to abuse the broken thing.

2. Hard=/ tedious. Farming mindlessly random mobs is not hard, it's just a matter of luck. Hard would be when you get rewarded for using your brain. Seeling blues to vendors and buying your best gear doesn't sound hard to me, just tedious and braindead. But hey, people enjoy different things...I guess. I didn't ask for handouts, just for a proper catchup system that is not as punishing for new players.

3. LS is dying and Andorhal is well precisely because the things I've listed. That's the whole point of making changes and making these posts :/

4. I'm not arguing against losing your bis. I'm arguing that in order to get your best in slot you have to do silly things like raiding and zerging, which is against what the server was meant to be. I'd love to lose my bis, just give me a meaningful way to get the bis to begin with.

7. Sure w/e

I don't think bad content is something to be kept around just because it's content. And speaking of problems that LS is facing, please do tell those. Obviously you are such an expert and love giving your "personal opinions" 

1: How are people abusing it if they're using it how it was created, second off it's not llike you can't use re's your self.

2: There are tons of catch up system, farm pvp get your pvp gear that's great for fresh 60's, you can easily get it in one day of pvping, Farm gold and buy raid gear of ah. Your basicly saying that you don't want to put the effort into getting the gear because it's to tedious to do so, so you want it given to you with minimal effort.

3: Ls isn't dieing because of these things, Ls is dieing because the idea of high risk only works for a few weeks- months, no matter what you do. it's never going to be a long term lasting project.

4: Please read what I said, I said if you have a system that makes it incredibly easy to get the raid gear you want just by buying it from a vender, it removes the whole point of a high risk server. having easy access to gear makes it the opposite of a high risk realm.

Exactly where do you think as a fresh player that you can say that raids are bad content? have you spoken to each player and gotten an accurate census of what the server what's? no you haven't or you'd know that sense the release of aq 40 even ls  has gotten a minor population jump. I wouldn't call my self an expert but I have a lot more knowledge about ascension then you based on my experience with the project.

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